NGC Registry Custom Sets - Why limit them?

[brg5658]

I've made this a separate thread from the other here: NGC graded coins ONLY in Registry Sets (US and World).

 

Below I detail my interactions with NGC with regard to Custom Sets. Any of you with these types of Registry Sets may be surprised of the coming changes...

 

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Since 2002, the NGC Registry Sets had always been inclusive in terms of grading company, allowing both PCGS and NGC graded coins.

 

In January 2012, NGC decided (with 2 weeks notice) to limit Competitive World Coin Registry Sets to NGC-graded coins only, disallowing and removing all PCGS graded coins from non-USA sets after 31 Jan 2012. Many members left the NGC registry, and many complete world coin sets were removed from the Registry all together. Truly a sad loss to those of us who would peruse these complete and amazing high-grade sets. The saving grace for those of us with world coins graded by both main TPGs was that we could create a Custom Set within the NGC registry. At that time, collectors with Competitive USA Coin Registry Sets were reassured that there were no plans to change the inclusivity of PCGS graded coins in those sets.

 

Custom Sets: NGC has long had the option to create Custom Sets within their registry. This flexibility is unique in that it allows you to create a set of coins that fit into whatever collecting goals you set for yourself, instead of the "fill the holes" kind of defined sets for series, types, etc. No "points" are assigned to coins in Custom Sets, and the sets largely consist of thematic or other broad collections of numismatic items. Annual awards are given to Custom Sets in various categories, but no "#1" certificates are awarded, as (again) there are no point values assigned to coins in these types of sets.

 

Upon receiving the email with Mark Salzberg's letter yesterday, I sent a note to the Registry email (registry@ngccoin.com) to clarify how this would impact Custom Sets. The note I sent is below:

 

In Mark Salzberg's letter this morning, he did not mention Custom Sets.

 

I hope that PCGS coins will continue to be allowed to be added to Custom Sets, and also to my Collection Manager.

 

One of the many reasons why I have been a member and continue to be a member at NGC is because I use their Collection Manager extensively (for all of my PCGS and NGC graded coins), and I like the flexibility of their Custom Sets feature for building collections for which I determine the theme and layout.

 

Could you please clarify this point?

 

What I received in reply was disheartening.

 

Thank you for your inquiry. Per Mark Salzberg's letter, NGC Registry can no longer accept coins graded by other grading services.

 

Will this change affect Custom Sets in the NGC Registry? Yes, this change applies to both Competitive Sets and Custom Sets. Remember, no coins will be removed from any sets – this change applies only to coins added in the future.

 

Well, I was surprised, and a little befuddled by why Custom Sets would be limited to NGC coins only in the future. These sets are not scored, and are largely ways for collectors to display their passion to other collectors. I replied, in a bit of frustration with:

 

Why would this change need to affect Custom Sets? There are no points and competitive nature to Custom Sets, so this doesn't make sense like it does for the Competitive Sets.

 

I would strongly encourage Mark Salzberg and other leadership to reconsider their decision to make this restriction to Custom Sets. I would also be grateful if you could send me the email address of Mark Salzberg directly.

 

The Collection Manager software and the Custom Set functionality and openness of NGC is one of the main reasons I continue to be an NGC member and keep my collection on display there. I am a 2 time best Custom Set winner, and if it is true that no new coins in PCGS plastic can be added to my Custom Sets, then NGC will likely lose me as a customer and advocate.

 

The reply was not really explaining why the new software couldn't allow new PCGS coins to be added to sets.

 

Thank you for your feedback, we have forwarded your comments to our senior team.

 

While we understand this is a significant change, remember, no coins will be removed from any sets – this change applies only to coins added in the future. This change will also allow us to to build features and provide additional support for collectors of NGC-certified coins. NGC Registry participants have suggested a number of enhancements and new features. We plan to open an optional, test version of the modernized NGC Registry for feedback in the next few months. Based on the feedback that we receive, we will launch the new and improved NGC Registry later this year.

 

This morning I sent one final note to NGC.

 

If indeed the Custom Sets will no longer allow new coins from both NGC and PCGS to be entered after January 1, 2017 -- then I will be forced to find a place elsewhere to display and continue to grow my Custom Sets. I see no rationale for limiting Custom Sets to NGC graded coins only (which are not scored for competitive reasons). I also do not see a rationale to allow only coins that were added to Custom Sets before a certain date, but to disallow them thereafter. This grandfathering process will eventually come back to bite NGC, and I can see the writing on the wall that PCGS coins (even those grandfathered) will eventually be removed from sets. This is simply not in keeping with my goals of collecting the best certified coins agnostic to a brand of plastic.

 

The Custom Sets are a place to display sets without regard to grade and competitive impetus. They are a true benefit to numismatics and a way of sharing the hobby with future generations. I am sad to see NGC's recent decision to disallow PCGS coins from Competitive USA Registry Sets (as they did with World Sets a while back). But, I am in utter belief that this decision will bleed over into the Custom Sets.

 

I thank you for your reply, and I hope that the senior team will rethink this decision -- in particular, with regard to the impact on Custom Sets.

 

I haven't completely given up hope that NGC will still do the right thing, and at least still allow those of us with Custom Sets to continue to add coins regardless of grading company.

[bstrauss3]

Because NGC is in the business of promoting their product...

[Forest City]

Thank you for writing this, and being in contact with NGC about this issue with Custom Sets.

 

You said pretty much everything I wanted to say, and probably better than I would have said it.

 

I am a huge fan of the Custom Set format. While I understand keeping PCGS coins out of the competitive sets, losing my ability to showcase both my (majority) NGC coins along with the PCGS world coins I have doesn't make sense to me.

 

I have spent countless hours researching and writing for my custom sets. I am basically writing complete open-source books as resources for people to use for the series I focus on, and the NGC Registry/Collections Manager format is easy to use and really makes everything look very professional.

 

But losing my ability to post PCGS coins would likely cause me to remove everything and find somewhere else where I can showcase both PCGS/NGC coins. I was about to submit for Most Informative Set, but my spirits are dampened now. I recently bought my most expensive coins yet, all three in PCGS holders, and was excited to add them to the Custom Registry.

 

I second everything brg is saying. NGC, please reconsider allowing PCGS in Custom sets! If your reasoning for not allowing PCGS coins is that their grading standards are different or lax, fine. But grade level doesn't come into play with Custom Sets. Please don't force out those who put time, love, passion, and effort into these sets. I have been a chamption of the NGC Registry format, and have encouraged and succeeded in having many of my associates and collector friends add their own coins to the NGC Custom Registry.

 

Please reconsider!

[physics-fan3.14]

This is really perplexing, and angers me even further.

 

That is all I'm going to say right now, because the words I'm thinking are extremely impolite.

[coinsbygary]

Dittos for me also. NGC if you go through with this it will be disastrous because you will in effect be cutting off all the creativeness that is found in the custom sets. The thing that I have always liked about you in the past is that you have helped a lot of collectors including myself to organize and express our collecting creativeness through the custom set. That said, we live in an environment where there are certified coins of both major grading services traded in the marketplace and to not allow both services as you have in the past will effectively limit your customer's creativity and cause them to find other outlets for their collections. Please reconsider at least leaving the custom sets as they are.

Gary

[jgenn]

Thanks for the update, Brandon. I believe that the powers-that-be did not consider Custom Sets when they made their decision. As you and others have pointed out, there are no points involved in Custom Sets so the new policy does not seem to have a purpose there. So, I'm holding out hope that the Custom Sets will be the one area where non-NGC slabbed coins will be allowed.

[physics-fan3.14]

I have now deleted my Custom sets, which were formely an interesting and convenient way to display coins that didn't fit into one of the pre-built sets.

 

I really don't see the point in the Registry anymore.

[MJ]

I love looking at the custom and regular sets

at both services. Watering down the custom sets seems unproductive numismaticly speaking

 

mark

[Zebo]

I have now deleted my Custom sets, which were formely an interesting and convenient way to display coins that didn't fit into one of the pre-built sets.

 

I really don't see the point in the Registry anymore.

 

Jason, I hate to hear this. Let's give NGC a chance to reconsider the custom sets. If they do not change their mind - then do what ever you think best.

[physics-fan3.14]

I have now deleted my Custom sets, which were formely an interesting and convenient way to display coins that didn't fit into one of the pre-built sets.

 

I really don't see the point in the Registry anymore.

 

Jason, I hate to hear this. Let's give NGC a chance to reconsider the custom sets. If they do not change their mind - then do what ever you think best.

 

I have kept my PL type set for now, at the request of a couple of people. I'll keep it until January 1 (when Mark threatened this bad decision would be implemented). If this unfortunate decision goes through, I will delete all of my Registry sets on January 1. If they change their mind, I'll re-form my sets. All of the information is stored on my computer and it won't be hard.

 

I seriously doubt they are going to change their mind, however. This is a major decision, made at the highest levels. As much as they pretend like they care about us, they really don't. Someone decided that this was the best business decision, without considering the people who have actually supported them. They convinced themselves that this was the best business model, for some reason, and didn't even solicit the community input. What is the point of having a forum like this if they aren't going to pay attention or listen to them?

 

I've been their supporter for 10 years. But I'm small potatoes, financially. They would not have made this decision without considering how much it would p-iss us off.

 

And I am really p-issed off right now.

[Zebo]

I have now deleted my Custom sets, which were formely an interesting and convenient way to display coins that didn't fit into one of the pre-built sets.

 

I really don't see the point in the Registry anymore.

 

Jason, I hate to hear this. Let's give NGC a chance to reconsider the custom sets. If they do not change their mind - then do what ever you think best.

 

I have kept my PL type set for now, at the request of a couple of people. I'll keep it until January 1 (when Mark threatened this bad decision would be implemented). If this unfortunate decision goes through, I will delete all of my Registry sets on January 1. If they change their mind, I'll re-form my sets. All of the information is stored on my computer and it won't be hard.

 

I seriously doubt they are going to change their mind, however. This is a major decision, made at the highest levels. As much as they pretend like they care about us, they really don't. Someone decided that this was the best business decision, without considering the people who have actually supported them. They convinced themselves that this was the best business model, for some reason, and didn't even solicit the community input. What is the point of having a forum like this if they aren't going to pay attention or listen to them?

 

I've been their supporter for 10 years. But I'm small potatoes, financially. They would not have made this decision without considering how much it would p-iss us off.

 

And I am really p-issed off right now.

 

I am in total agreement that NGC should have opened a conversation about this move with the community before deciding. Right or wrong - the community should at least have their opinions heard. The one thing in question is PCGS currently over grading their coins? If so, this may be a stand against grade inflation with the registry being the sacrificial lamb. Just a thought.

[Catbert]

What recommendations do members here have as an alternative for those who wish to display both holders in a custom set? I never gave a rat's petoot for registry points, just want a home to display and share my interests.

[BillJones]

 

Because NGC is in the business of promoting their product...

 

If making you most loyal customers and those who have defended their product for years angry is a way of "promoting their product," it is a very poor business plan to improve your firm's net income.

 

The PCGS registry has been "more prestigious" from the beginning because of the large number of collectors and some dealers who think that their product is better. The people who ran the NGC registry had the potential make their registry BETTER because they recognized that important and historic coins have been certified in both PCGS and NGC holders. Now NGC is throwing away its opportunity to be the BETTER REGISTRY because Mark Salzberg has decided to emulate his narrow-minded PCGS competition.

 

That is a very bad decision, Mr. Salzberg, and your rational for doing it is totally suspect. BOTH PCGS and NGC have let their standards slip over the last year. Dealers and collectors have been talking about it for months. If you would like to have a private correspondence, I'd really to you want I think of your rational.

 

I could accept this if the PCGS coins were given zero points in the registry, BUT you were still allowed to post pictures and descriptions of those coins educate collectors. But, no you can't even do that. The imperious Mr. Salzberg has decided that education and promotion of hobby must take a backseat to his myopic view of the numismatic world and his misguided business plan.

 

As I stated before, I have long defended NGC before the "PCGS only crowd," but those days are passed. I feel betrayed and unappreciated for what I've done for this company.

 

[MJ]

I agree with you Bill.

 

mark

[#]

I've mentioned it on other threads but the ANA site has a registry of sorts. One can get freeback, show your coins and look at others sets. It not very popular but is effective. Not to mention the ANA would probably listen to suggestions; AND won't care if it's NGC, PCGS or whomever.