J P M Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 Hi all , I'm always looking to better my odds and it is tough coin market out there nowadays. Some of the old timers are saying not to hold true on to the lookup prices from NGC or PCGS as their listings are a bit high? So should I just take a percentage off when shopping to be safe. Obviously most dealers price by the Gray sheet magazine and everyone has to make a living, but that is a bit pricy to have . So when I am out shopping I always look up on my phone the prices on the NGC page or the PCGS page for comparison it is just so much easier ? So the question is should I pick up a Blue book also it seams kinda silly because prices change daily nowadays. Just wanted to see what you all thought. James Zyskowski and Hoghead515 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Zyskowski Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 Good morning and happy fourth. I use eBay sold prices and for fun I add numismatic news with coin world and top it off with red book. eBay and such are my go to. Can’t budget greysheet as I’m a small collector and don’t sell. Anyway I just am confused most of the time and try to buy what I like because I screw up all the time and my associate and partner cat🙀loves to point out this fact! 🤓 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Abshier Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 (edited) I only use NGC/PCGS price guide for graded coins as reference I like PCGS sometimes because they show auction prices for some of graded coins that have sold it shows prices scattered for a range of coins in different grades I narrow it down a lot time I only deal online with “best offers” on coins a lot dealers are workable some of them don’t mention they accept “best offers” but it doesn’t hurt to ask . Another place is heritage auctions and few others gives you better idea what people are paying . Is buying the price book practical when we have power of internet to google whatever we want ? Greysheet is nice it doesn’t do you much good as the “buyer” the Greysheet is for what a dealer buys coins at wholesale on a spread it gives you an idea what a dealer should or would pay for your coins if you were to sell to dealer only Edited July 4, 2021 by Jason Abshier James Zyskowski 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woods020 Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 JP, Blue book and blue sheet are prices dealers are willing to pay to buy your coin. You won’t be able to buy coins very often at these prices. If you want to forego Greysheet which I completely understand your best bet is sold prices. eBay has an easy way just google ebay sold listing search and you can find it that way. You can also look on the auction houses to see. PCGS also offers a sold price lookup and here is the link. https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices James Zyskowski and J P M 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woods020 Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Jason Abshier said: I only use NGC/PCGS price guide for graded coins as reference I like PCGS sometimes because they show auction prices for some of graded coins that have sold it shows prices scattered for a range of coins in different grades I narrow it down a lot time I only deal online with “best offers” on coins a lot dealers are workable some of them don’t mention they accept “best offers” but it doesn’t hurt to ask . Another place is heritage auctions and few others gives you better idea what people are paying . Is buying the price book practical when we have power of internet to google whatever we want ? Greysheet is nice it doesn’t do you much good as the “buyer” the Greysheet is for what a dealer buys coins at wholesale on a spread it gives you an idea what a dealer should or would pay for your coins if you were to sell to dealer only No dealers won’t pay grey sheet. They pay blue or less. Greysheet is retail pricing. Now not every coin will follow by this. Some ugly coins will go less than average and beautiful ones more. It’s an average but Greysheet isn’t what dealers will pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post VKurtB Posted July 4, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 4, 2021 I do almost all of my buying at in-person auctions, for which I will drive obscene distances for a really good one. I have a “program” set up in a HP 17BII-Pro+ calculator that helps me bid. In a slow market, I target about 35% under a retail guide. In a hot market, for a coin I really want, I set it at 15-20% under. I usually end up with a few pieces at 60% under. Usually early American copper when precious metals are hot. I NEVER EVER go nuts with bidding. I establish my top price and never go a dollar over it. Woods020, GBrad and Hoghead515 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Woods020 Posted July 4, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 4, 2021 10 minutes ago, VKurtB said: I do almost all of my buying at in-person auctions, for which I will drive obscene distances for a really good one. I have a “program” set up in a HP 17BII-Pro+ calculator that helps me bid. In a slow market, I target about 35% under a retail guide. In a hot market, for a coin I really want, I set it at 15-20% under. I usually end up with a few pieces at 60% under. Usually early American copper when precious metals are hot. I NEVER EVER go nuts with bidding. I establish my top price and never go a dollar over it. This is the best advice anyone can give. When I first started I was in such a hurry to build up a collection I overpaid for many. In reality there are very very few coins you won’t have many chances to buy. If the price isn’t right pass and be patient. You may find one you like better in a few months at a better price. Honestly most of the lessons I have learned in the art of numismatics (not the science which is the technical part) all boil down to patience. Don’t rush to buy, don’t rush to grade, don’t rush to over shoot your knowledge. Slow and steady will win this race for sure. GBrad, Fenntucky Mike, Coinbuf and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 As a collector only and one that does not buy very many coins paying for the grey/blue sheets would not be a useful use of funds. By reading this forum and the PCGS forum I am able to see what the market trend as a whole is doing. When I want to buy a specific coin from a dealer I use the PCGS auction tool that @Woods020 linked earlier, the CAC buy price, and GC auction results to set the floor, I then use the eBay sold listings and the NGC/PCGS price guides to set the high retail range. I then target about 80% less of the high retail (eBay) and 20% above avg auction results as the sweet spot for my buy pricing. Of course its more complex than it sounds as you have to take into account things like toning that may spike an auction price way out of the norm, the absence or presence of CAC, or a couple of crazy bidders that got into a bidding war and the quality of the item you are looking to buy. I will also check Collectors Corner to see what is being offered for sale in that venue, it helps to get an idea of price and availability. This works very well for slabbed coins but is less effective for raw coins but can still be of use, if I'm looking at a raw coin I can still use these metrics but I adjust down knowing that slabbing costs are usually around $50ish per coin. However I seldom buy from a dealer anymore, most of my buys are from the marketplace/BST sections of the NGC and PCGS forums, and auctions. I still use the tools I noted above to help with finding a price level that I feel is correct and then attempt to buy at or very close to that, I will if I really want the coin stretch some but it has to be very special or difficult to find. James Zyskowski and Hoghead515 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Abshier Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Woods020 said: Greysheet is retail pricing I always though Greysheet was wholesale sight seen coins certified , bluesheet was for sight “unseen” wholesale both raw and certified Coins either one was no where near yearly posted retail values . I guess I was wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Zyskowski Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 (edited) a fun way to watch crazy bidding is to find 3-4 items due to end around midnight eastern. What we lovingly refer to as drunk “I’ll show you “ bidding lately it’s been Morgan’s and peace dollars and ase’s (especially toned) not trying to judge just always on the lookout for a chuckle This is especially true on Friday and Saturday night 🍺🥃 Edited July 5, 2021 by James Zyskowski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Abshier Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Coinbuf said: I then target about 80% less of the high retail 80% ? Really I have see that to believe it if a coin is worth $200 (retail value) you want to only buy for $40 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woods020 Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Jason Abshier said: 80% ? Really I have see that to believe it if a coin is worth $200 (retail value) you want to only buy for $40 ? Pretty sure he meant he targets to pay 80% of retail. I think that’s a number a lot of people would quote. Unless it’s a once in a lifetime or has amazing eye appeal. So your $200 coin he would set a target buy or not to exceed price of $160. Edited July 4, 2021 by Woods020 Hoghead515 and Jason Abshier 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Abshier Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 23 minutes ago, Woods020 said: Pretty sure he meant he targets to pay 80% of retail. I think that’s a number a lot of people would quote. Unless it’s a once in a lifetime or has amazing eye appeal. So your $200 coin he would set a target buy or not to exceed price of $160. I was about to hire him , leave my coin list with him he would be able to get them all for me at 80% off . I almost believed my dreams came true 🤣 Hoghead515 and Jeremy468 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 7 hours ago, Woods020 said: Pretty sure he meant he targets to pay 80% of retail. I think that’s a number a lot of people would quote. Unless it’s a once in a lifetime or has amazing eye appeal. So your $200 coin he would set a target buy or not to exceed price of $160. Yep @Woods020 is correct I meant 80% of retail, hands were typing faster than the brain was going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Coinbuf said: Yep @Woods020 is correct I meant 80% of retail, hands were typing faster than the brain was going. That makes me feel better all my purchase's of special or slab coins have been in that range or lower so far. But then again most of the stuff I have is not worth huge money Edited July 5, 2021 by J P Mashoke James Zyskowski 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Abshier Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 @Woods020 I asked yesterday if Greysheet was wholesale bid for dealer sight seen slabbed coins . Blue sheet is also whole sale bid as sight unseen for lower end slabbed value coins and raw coins . I haven’t seen a Greysheet for years but last time I looked it was always Bid and ask prices among dealer to dealer only at wholesale prices perhaps it may have changed over the years that I’m not aware of it’s more retail priced? I noticed the prices where never near retail prices that you and I would pay to buy a coin from a dealer but it been about 10 years since I looked at the Greysheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 The "Blue Book" was ridiculously low way back when I was a kid - during the Alexandrine/Macedonian Empire. James Zyskowski 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woods020 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 4 hours ago, Jason Abshier said: @Woods020 I asked yesterday if Greysheet was wholesale bid for dealer sight seen slabbed coins . Blue sheet is also whole sale bid as sight unseen for lower end slabbed value coins and raw coins . I haven’t seen a Greysheet for years but last time I looked it was always Bid and ask prices among dealer to dealer only at wholesale prices perhaps it may have changed over the years that I’m not aware of it’s more retail priced? I noticed the prices where never near retail prices that you and I would pay to buy a coin from a dealer but it been about 10 years since I looked at the Greysheet I think that was the initial intent, but it’s far from it. I’ve actually found that Greysheet will most of the time get you right in that sweet spot several have mentioned at roughly 80% of retail that most of us try to buy at. No dealer anywhere will pay Greysheet unless it’s got something special in eye appeal. They usually pay more blue book or 50% of retail. It all depends. Here is a prime example. I have bought several coins from Northeast Numismatics recently (highly recommend them by the way). This is a listing for a dime of theirs I saw recently and am debating on. You will notice their asking price is below Greysheet. Not always the case but on average I’ve found if I buy at Greysheet it’s about perfect. The last coin show I went to a month ago I went from table to table and if I asked a price without a single fail they pulled out the Greysheet and quoted the price. Alex in PA. and Jason Abshier 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex in PA. Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Very nice Dime. Woods020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woods020 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Alex in PA. said: Very nice Dime. I’ve debated on that thing for a few weeks. It’s a little darker than I would prefer, which is why I have hesitated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Abshier Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Woods020 said: I have bought several coins from Northeast Numismatics recently (highly recommend them by the way). I’ve dealt with them in the past , I’ve also sold a bunch of coins to them for their inventory about 16 years ago if I recall it was long while back. Also bought a lot high graded old world Coins and few gold coins off them over the years they are easy to work and haggle with on prices they are motivated dealer that doesn’t turn down offers Edited July 5, 2021 by Jason Abshier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
