what causes this on morgan dollars? 0

[dollarfan]

hello again,  i have passed up on purchasing several morgans that were very nice except for they all have these lower cheek scratch variations.  does anyone know more about these?  they are almost exactly the same on same coins of different years.  thanks

[dollarfan]

here is another coin, different year, both CC mints pictured

[GoldFinger1969]

Are you referring to what is most likely bag marks ?  I'm not sure from your question.

Bag marks happen from the coins being moved in bags....deeper "gouges" are from stronger impacts or other contact and/or circulation.

[dollarfan]

1 minute ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Are you referring to what is most likely bag marks ?  I'm not sure from your question.

Bag marks happen from the coins being moved in bags....deeper "gouges" are from stronger impacts or other contact and/or circulation.

hello and thanks for the reply,  i am very familiar with bag marks and sorry if the pics dont show better.  I am asking about the group of straight lines going from 1 or 2 oclock down to 7 or 8 oclock, usually im seeing five or six parallel lines same lower cheek area over many different coins.  from my experiences bag marks are very random and all over.  these mark groupings seem very consistent and not random.

[RWB]

Go to VAMworld.com and ask about "roller marks" or "drawbanch marks."

[GoldFinger1969]

8 minutes ago, RWB said:

Go to VAMworld.com and ask about "roller marks" or "drawbanch marks."

Yeah, now I see them....they look like someone ran something abrasive or something.  Parallel lines....yes, as Roger said, check out those 2 items.  I never heard of them but Morgan experts and VAM experts would certainly know. 

[Coinbuf]

If it is those parallel lines you are asking about those are roller marks from when the silver was rolled into strips for the blanks to be cut from.   Most of the time the coining process eliminates the marks on the planchets but not always.

[GoldFinger1969]

Just now, Coinbuf said:

If it is those parallel lines you are asking about those are roller marks from when the silver was rolled into strips for the blanks to be cut from.   Most of the time the coining process eliminates the marks on the planchets but not always.

How rare are they ?  I never saw them before though I wasn't looking, either.

Why wouldn't they have been destroyed as defective ?

How does that impact grading and re-sale ?

 

[Coinbuf]

1 minute ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

How rare are they ?  I never saw them before though I wasn't looking, either.

Why wouldn't they have been destroyed as defective ?

How does that impact grading and re-sale ?

 

They are not unusual and there are many both graded and ungraded examples, I think I have two or three with varying amounts of roller marks.   The mints have a fairly broad range of what is considered ok in terms of quality control, just consider all the 1955/1955 double die coins that got coins and released.  Or the 1922 "plain" cents that were created due to the excessive die wear of the Denver die, and that is just two examples of one series where is QC had to be tighter those coins would not exist in the quantities they do.   As far as grading its mint made so really it should not affect the technical grading, however it falls under the eye appeal side of the current market grading so its more of a case by case evaluation.    The same is true for buying and selling, it clearly bothers the op enough to pass on buying, for myself it does not really bother me but I would not pay a PQ price for one with roller marks. 

[dollarfan]

1 hour ago, Coinbuf said:

They are not unusual and there are many both graded and ungraded examples, I think I have two or three with varying amounts of roller marks.   The mints have a fairly broad range of what is considered ok in terms of quality control, just consider all the 1955/1955 double die coins that got coins and released.  Or the 1922 "plain" cents that were created due to the excessive die wear of the Denver die, and that is just two examples of one series where is QC had to be tighter those coins would not exist in the quantities they do.   As far as grading its mint made so really it should not affect the technical grading, however it falls under the eye appeal side of the current market grading so its more of a case by case evaluation.    The same is true for buying and selling, it clearly bothers the op enough to pass on buying, for myself it does not really bother me but I would not pay a PQ price for one with roller marks. 

here is another one,  thanks to all for the fantastic information.  this appears to be very common in CC morgans in MS grades  I pass on all specimens with this unless it is a super deal and those are rare.  great info!!

[Hoghead515]

Some of those marks were caused when they pulled them through a drawbench to get the final thickness on the strips before they cut the planchets out. 

[Hoghead515]

Such as this one. Their rollers wouldn't roll them down to the proper thickness. The strips would be either to thick or to thin on one side or another  so they pulled them through a drawbench. It had fixed dies on it and they would hook one end of the strip up to a clamp and a chain would pull them between the dies and it would flatten it down to the final thickness. @RWB can tell you more about it. Here's one I own with drawbench marks in it.