Authentic? 1889-CC Morgan
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26 posts in this topic

Long story short, purchased this coin on ebay about 10 years ago and was contacted by a another ebay user shortly after to "let me know it wasn't genuine". I don't see anything suspect, but I'll admit I've questioned it ever since.  I've finally decided to submit it but was curious is anyone here thinks anything looks off?

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5 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

It looks like a counterfeit. It’s a shame that you didn’t return it at that time.

Interesting. At the time I took it to a couple dealers and one also said it looked counterfeit because of the coloring. Is that what you were thinking as well? 

More to come, I'll report back once NGC posts results. 

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20 minutes ago, lotofsilver said:

Interesting. At the time I took it to a couple dealers and one also said it looked counterfeit because of the coloring. Is that what you were thinking as well? 

More to come, I'll report back once NGC posts results. 

The coloring is just part of it. I’d have to look at photos of genuine ones to articulate the specifics of why it immediately hit me as counterfeit. However, even without looking at photos, my memory and brain tell me it doesn’t match with genuine examples.

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Agree with Mark. A rather evident counterfeit. Some might have trouble with it because everything is just a little "off," and a few parts are a lot "off."

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Rims don't look right.  Has wire rims (finning) forming in a couple spots both obv & rev and that is something you really don't see on Morgans,  I would check out the CC mintmark size and placement as well.  Somethin looks off there to me.

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[I refuse to bear ill will toward anyone's acquisition.  In the best of worlds (where folks still believe in Santa Claus) I would argue this is a rare variety with partially beaded dentils and well-nourished, forward-looking CC'S.  If the OP hasn't yet checked vamworld (as suggested) or submitted it for formal autopsy, I would be inclined to give it an unobtrusive facial, weigh it on a sensitive scale, spin it on a formica table using a forefinger and thumb -- and possibly releasing it onto a polished wood surface from an elevation of two or three inches to prevent damage. If everything is still inconclusive, you may be the proud owner of a rare dollar with a tilting mint mark.  I like the coin regardless of provenance BUT if you bought it from Etsy or Ratzie33 or at a fly-by-night flea market fire sale, feel free to PM me to explore possible options.  What I don't want you or anyone else to do is recoup your loss by making your problem someone else's. The key here is from whom you purchased your dollar and any representations you recall having been made to you prior to purchase. Good luck!

Edited by Quintus Arrius
Rewritten.
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1 minute ago, Hoghead515 said:

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I may be wrong but something don't look right to me. Im in no way or form an expert of any kind. But this looks alot different than all the cc's that I've seen. But im fairly new to this. 

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11 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

The link didn’t bring up that coin.

My wife took a pic of it on my phone and sent it to me. I dont know how to copy links. But I looked up cc morgans and its a ways down the page

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35 minutes ago, messydesk said:

Agree that the 78-CC is good (VAM 6).  The 89-CC has a lot not to like -- rims, detail, date and mint mark position, heavy clash on the reverse, and that's just from a blurry picture.

What threw me off was the mint mark. Im still pretty new and wasn't used to seeing them like that. Then RWB posted that link to the different varieties and I saw it on there. I done a bunch of research today and found out why there were so many varieties back in those days. I learned alot about all the different die pairs. There a whole lot out there I never dreamed of. Thank you all for setting me straight. 

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51 minutes ago, Hoghead515 said:

What threw me off was the mint mark. Im still pretty new and wasn't used to seeing them like that. Then RWB posted that link to the different varieties and I saw it on there. I done a bunch of research today and found out why there were so many varieties back in those days. I learned alot about all the different die pairs. There a whole lot out there I never dreamed of. Thank you all for setting me straight. 

Virtually everyone here will be glad to help other collectors. Much of the general information about dies and coining processes you read on VAMWorld is very good and applicable to nearly all other coins - US and foreign. (Member "messydesk" is a particularly good resource on Morgan and Peace dollars.)

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12 minutes ago, rocket23 said:

I wonder what NGC found out.........

I never submitted, after looking at replies and the coin I can definitely see what is off. It's more pronounced in person but the reverse rim definitely has a weird seam all the way around. It's back in the album a placeholder for the time being. 

Realizing no one here knows me from Adam it might not be much consolation but I can assure everyone this won't be passed off to anyone else. I'm not in the business of passing off problems or fleecing others, I can take this as what it is, a lesson and move on.

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[Postscript on my revisit as regarding the '78-CC... Maybe I haven't scoured the extensive listings and accompanying photos sufficiently enough but I do not recall seeing or recall anyone mentioning two features which struck me as being odd:  the lands and grooves on the ends of the arrows and the arrowheads themselves which resemble those coarsely chiseled ones commonly associated with native Americans.]

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