I Just Don't Understand... 2 2

[Insider]

1 hour ago, RWB said:

The two photos above, show this for which correct color is not needed. Either would be OK in B&W (grayscale). But correct color balance presents a coin or other item more accurately than otherwise.

Still no good but the bubble pattern is visible.

[MarkFeld]

6 hours ago, Moxie15 said:

Well, you missed the boat on this one @MAULEMALL The thread is about several members not accepting a time honored teaching and testing method used by some members.  I think that anyone of the members who complain about 'white balance' and close up pictures of partial coin surfaces would easily answer the related question if they were not fixated on the minor technical issues  of presentation. As I mentioned in the OP  I have taken important and  potentially life altering  exams with far worse pictures and illustrations.

None of what you’ve experienced or written means that Insider couldn’t reach a much larger audience by methods other than his “time honored teaching and testing method“.

[Insider]

48 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

None of what you’ve experienced or written means that Insider couldn’t reach a much larger audience by methods other than his “time honored teaching and testing method“.

The audience here is very tiny.   While I don't think any member should be the subject of a discussion (except those who are missed for some reason or another), my posts and the criticism of my images and teaching method has generated some "life" to the forum.  Additionally, I'll bet all of us have learned something on this forum in the last month.  I have. 

Anyway, as the popularity of this forum increases, perhaps you and others will post a sample quiz with the proper images so I'll see the correct way to teach.  For now, I prefer to ask is this a ______ or describe what you see in this image; rather than this is a  ________.    

[scopru]

13 hours ago, Insider said:

my posts and the criticism of my images and teaching method has generated some "life" to the forum.

Agree with insider methods or not, this statement in my opinion has some truth to it.  I have a few members I look for simply because I have observed their posts lead to informative (and sometimes lively) discussions from multiple sides of a debate.  

Edited November 3, 2020 by scopru

[Insider]

But some of us  should learn to be more gracious and empathetic when posting with others.  

[MarkFeld]

55 minutes ago, scopru said:

Agree with insider methods or not, this statement in my opinion has some truth to it.  I have a few members I look for simply because I have observed their posts lead to informative (and sometimes lively) discussions from multiple sides of a debate.  

Absolutely, and Insider is definitely one of them!

[1917]

....when you enter a coin forum, and find a thread dedicated to bashing a specific member's teaching and posting... you know you're on ngc...

Edited November 3, 2020 by 1917
felt like it

[Insider]

4 hours ago, 1917 said:

....when you enter a coin forum, and find a thread dedicated to bashing a specific member's teaching and posting... you know you're on ngc...

Whenever, anyone posts anything they should be prepared for anything.   Criticism is a good thing.  That's how we get better unless we are too lazy to learn about white balance when using florescent light.   

[punkaccountant]

1 hour ago, Insider said:

Whenever, anyone posts anything they should be prepared for anything.   Criticism is a good thing.  That's how we get better unless we are too lazy to learn about white balance when using florescent light.   

I'm new and have a limited perspective so I don't know all the issues. I agree with this statement to a degree. I've been on other forums where people are downright mean in their criticism. I wish in those instances that people were kinder/gentler.

[Insider]

9 minutes ago, punkaccountant said:

I'm new and have a limited perspective so I don't know all the issues. I agree with this statement to a degree. I've been on other forums where people are downright mean in their criticism. I wish in those instances that people were kinder/gentler.

What you may not understand at the moment is it takes all kinds.  Some folks like to be sarcastic and mean.  Other long time members get really tired of the same old questions. If they decide to help and then are not believed or argued with, the devil comes out and others will often join in.  There is some good stuff posted on forums and many folks who join don't post at all.  They just read the posts.  I will never understand that as I'm full of questions.

Bottom line, very few here truly know who we really are.  We are only judged by our posts and counter posts.  Have fun and who cares what others think they know about us.  In the big picture, this is an extremely tiny place populated by all us little people with opinions.   

[VKurtB]

Serious inquiry: Is getting a usable white balance so difficult that it's not worth the time spent? I ask because @Insider clearly has BOTH things to teach and things to learn. It's not a one-way street. Full disclosure: getting a proper white balance can require some "fiddling" with things one might not care for, but OMG, it is completely worth the time spent. People trying to get by with phone cameras will never get this.

Edited November 9, 2020 by VKurtB

[MarkFeld]

1 hour ago, VKurtB said:

Serious inquiry: Is getting a usable white balance so difficult that it's not worth the time spent? I ask because @Insider clearly has BOTH things to teach and things to learn. It's not a one-way street. Full disclosure: getting a proper white balance can require some "fiddling" with things one might not care for, but OMG, it is completely worth the time spent. People trying to get by with phone cameras will never get this.

My guess is that it would take far less time than has been spent talking about it, though perhaps it wouldn't be nearly as much fun : )

[VKurtB]

2 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

My guess is that it would take far less time than has been spent talking about it, though perhaps it wouldn't be nearly as much fun : )

When I was in Alabama last week unpacking some boxes that had been in storage for a bit, I ran across my old stash of Kodak Neutral Test Cards. @RWB will understand the significance of that.

[Henri Charriere]

50 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

I ran across my old stash of Kodak Neutral Test Cards. @RWB will understand the significance of that.

Reminds me of the no carbon required (NCR) paper, or litmus paper of old.

[RWB]

4 hours ago, VKurtB said:

When I was in Alabama last week unpacking some boxes that had been in storage for a bit, I ran across my old stash of Kodak Neutral Test Cards. @RWB will understand the significance of that.

Yes. THE standard along with their color cards. Expensive but absolutely neutral....Never liked the Macbeth cards -- purple color cast to them.

Amazing that you found anything neutral in Alabama -- must be near Huntsville.

[VKurtB]

1 hour ago, RWB said:

Yes. THE standard along with their color cards. Expensive but absolutely neutral....Never liked the Macbeth cards -- purple color cast to them.

Amazing that you found anything neutral in Alabama -- must be near Huntsville.

In Huntsville. There was a smoke plume coming from Redstone Arsenal as I was leaving to come back to PA last Wednesday morning. I suspect a rocket engine static test. 
 

Roger is right about MacBeth cards. For CMYK fans, too much magenta, not quite enough yellow. For RGB fans, not enough green, a tad too much blue. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by VKurtB

[RWB]

I went so far as driving to Dunsinane right to Macbeth's door to try and get a really good, neutral gray card. But t'was for naught. On leaving I could see in pale moon glow Birnam Wood move forward slow.

Edited November 10, 2020 by RWB

[VKurtB]

In Insider’s pictures, way, WAY W-A-Y too much green, and way too little anything other than “yuck”. It’s a darned shame, too, because what he means to show is important. The lack of photographic quality undermines his reputation. And I have zero doubt that it is his beloved fluorescent lamps that undermine the quality of his photographs. Clearly he has “calibrated” his eye to his lamps, but that doesn’t help anyone else. It’s just like when you spend hours at night outdoors and your eyes adjust to mercury or sodium vapor lights and you no longer see the green or orange.

Edited November 10, 2020 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

Speaking strictly as a rank amateur, it seems to me -- without taking sides, that as regarding incandescents vs fluorescents, one light source may very well be well-suited for grading (and all that that entails) while another is hands- down perfectly positioned for photography duty.  Does this mean one is deficient to do the work of both well. Yes, that is what I am suggesting.

Another observation: the dual Reading Rooms of the New York Public Library's main building (now named for a benefactor as are most of the bridges and tunnels) are outfitted with ordinary table lamps outfitted with incandescent bulbs which have proved sufficient for the needs of all patrons none of whom have ever tampered with the devices for some special need or advantage in the fifty years I have dropped by to more closely examine mysterious striations on coins -- or catch up on the daily news.

[VKurtB]

3 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Speaking strictly as a rank amateur, it seems to me -- without taking sides, that as regarding incandescents vs fluorescents, one light source may very well be well-suited for grading (and all that that entails) while another is hands- down perfectly positioned for photography duty.  Does this mean one is deficient to do the work of both well. Yes, that is what I am suggesting.

Another observation: the dual Reading Rooms of the New York Public Library's main building (now named for a benefactor as are most of the bridges and tunnels) are outfitted with ordinary table lamps outfitted with incandescent bulbs which have proved sufficient for the needs of all patrons none of whom have ever tampered with the devices for some special need or advantage in the fifty years I have dropped by to more closely examine mysterious striations on coins -- or catch up on the daily news.

Yes, you are correct about the incandescent lamps for the present, but they are being targeted by the “green” warriors for elimination, wattage by wattage. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 10/31/2020 at 1:39 PM, Coinbuf said:

He is the only person that I have ever put on ignore, . . .

This is BIG news to me!  If true, it means the official count of those who've chosen to deprive themselves of my trivia and trespasses is down to 34. Mighty fine collection of Lincolns you've got there. Keep up the good work!