What's Happening at the ANA? 1 1

[VKurtB]

I offer Indianapolis, St. Louis, Albuquerque, Seattle, even Rochester. And there are other options near Philly than in Philly. Even D.C. They repealed their coin sales tax. 

Edited October 17, 2020 by VKurtB

[MarkFeld]

5 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

If you mean by that, “not that many cities even want us”, that has been true in the recent past, but the long term impact of COVID on convention centers may be changing that, as some other industries learn that live conventions aren’t necessary any more for them. Based on what we do, we will always have a live in-person need. Us and Comicon, at least.

As it pertains to airport requirements, no one can compare with O’Hare, with the possible exception of Atlanta, which is just lovely in August.  But even with O’Hare right there, dealers STILL leave the venue too early. 

That was certainly one of the major limiting factors. I’d still like to hear about lack of creativity and/or some creative ideas. 

[VKurtB]

1 minute ago, MarkFeld said:

That was certainly one of the major limiting factors. I’d still like to hear about lack of creativity and/or some creative ideas. 

One post up.

[VKurtB]

The DFW area did TWO successful March shows, but then there’s that weather thing in August again.

[Zebo]

1 hour ago, VKurtB said:

By the way, if the association continues to be dealer dominated, you might never see another World's Fair of Money, after the "make-up" one in Pittsburgh in 2023, anywhere else other than the Chicago metro area.

Why does Chicago seem to have a lock hold on the convention? 

[VKurtB]

2 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Why does Chicago seem to have a lock hold on the convention? 

It's the easiest answer for the least work by a now-demoralized staff. I really think it's no more complex than that.

Edited October 17, 2020 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

3 hours ago, World Colonial said:

I'm talking about using the ANA to promote collecting as a business while mostly or entirely ignoring the hobby aspects which is what collecting is supposed to be about.  If collector hobbyists aren't going to support the ANA, then if it's going to last, it's going to get taken over by the financial promoters. 

I am partially speculating here, as I am not a member and could be completely wrong about it.

My assumption is that most of the endowment is previously donated collections.  I'd be surprised if it has much of a cash endowment but haven't looked at the financials and could be wrong about that also.

Speaking as someone who is 100% a collector and does it as a hobby for enjoyment, I have no problem with part of their efforts and $$$ being spent to promote the business side alongside the hobby itself.  I think they kind of go hand in hand, right ? 

[GoldFinger1969]

2 hours ago, VKurtB said:

There is talk that the Langbord Double Eagles may be distributed, and if they are, the ANA might be an obvious home for one. 

What talk ?  I've seen or read nothing.  Distributed (given away) or SOLD ?

Either action might well invalidate their BS arguments during the trials.

 

[GoldFinger1969]

20 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Why does Chicago seem to have a lock hold on the convention? 

With FUN on the East Coast and Long Branch on the West Coast, it was kinda filling a need geogrphically.   

[Zebo]

22 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

With FUN on the East Coast and Long Branch on the West Coast, it was kinda filling a need geogrphically.   

What about Central States? Two shows a year. I think they could find another venue that might draw dealers and the public.

[GoldFinger1969]

51 minutes ago, Zebo said:

What about Central States? Two shows a year. I think they could find another venue that might draw dealers and the public.

Good point....my understanding was that CS was a strong #4 to the other Big 3 shows.....and that recently, CS has seen dealer and attendance drops.  True ?

[World Colonial]

1 hour ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Speaking as someone who is 100% a collector and does it as a hobby for enjoyment, I have no problem with part of their efforts and $$$ being spent to promote the business side alongside the hobby itself.  I think they kind of go hand in hand, right ? 

They can do that by accepting paid advertising and sponsorships which they already do.

I was only speculating, as I don't know specifics.  Current collecting culture in the US cannot be totally separated from the business side, as the price level cannot be sustained without it.   Concurrently, I don't believe that many dealers and their customers really like collecting that much either, or else there wouldn't be so much exaggeration on collecting aspects which are insignificant.

[World Colonial]

4 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Good point....my understanding was that CS was a strong #4 to the other Big 3 shows.....and that recently, CS has seen dealer and attendance drops.  True ?

Anecdotally even before COVID, it's my impression that attendance is down because there are too many coin shows.

[GoldFinger1969]

18 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

Anecdotally even before COVID, it's my impression that attendance is down because there are too many coin shows.

I would think with online availability the need to travel as much as in the past makes less sense.  I could easily see myself 25 years ago attending 2-4 shows a year regularly.  But for now, 1 is enough aside from trying out a new venue.

Edited October 18, 2020 by GoldFinger1969

[World Colonial]

10 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I would think with online availability the need to travel as much as in the past makes less sense.  I could easily see myself 25 years ago attending 2-4 shows a year regularly.  But for now, 1 is enough aside from trying out a new venue.

I don't think it makes sense either, but I don't collect the coins most do.  I attended the February ANA in Atlanta (I live there), covered all the tables of interest to me in about two hours the first day (took a vacation day to do it) and bought one coin.  It's a "keeper" for sure for what I collect but there was no point in returning again.  I intentionally got there at the opening the first day to improve my chances of finding something and consider myself fortunate to get it.  Usually, I can only find coins for my one of my sideline collections and I'm not about to travel for that.

For the overwhelming percentage of collectors, it makes no sense to travel at all given their collecting budget unless they make it a vacation.  Some do it to visit with collectors they know but I'm not spending one cent on that either.  My vacation  money is already committed elsewhere and my coin money is for coins, not traveling to coin shows.

[GoldFinger1969]

8 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

For the overwhelming percentage of collectors, it makes no sense to travel at all given their collecting budget unless they make it a vacation.  Some do it to visit with collectors they know but I'm not spending one cent on that either.  My vacation  money is already committed elsewhere and my coin money is for coins, not traveling to coin shows.

I get you.  For me, FUN was part vacation...part see an old college friend....part coins...and part "Get Out Of New York in January." 

For me at least, FUN makes tons of sense and the timing is good (January tends to be a slow month).

[Zebo]

1 hour ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Good point....my understanding was that CS was a strong #4 to the other Big 3 shows.....and that recently, CS has seen dealer and attendance drops.  True ?

That's my understanding as well - even though I like CS better than Long Beach and I've never been to FUN. Maybe one of these days. 

[GoldFinger1969]

54 minutes ago, Zebo said:

That's my understanding as well - even though I like CS better than Long Beach and I've never been to FUN. Maybe one of these days. 

1st time at FUN 9 months ago....met some of the posters here and at CT....had a GREAT time, only thing different would be to book the same hotel as the guys and also not schedule my dinner with a friend on the same night as the dinner with forum folks.

Edited October 18, 2020 by GoldFinger1969

[VKurtB]

3 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

What talk ?  I've seen or read nothing.  Distributed (given away) or SOLD ?

Either action might well invalidate their BS arguments during the trials.

 

Lent.

[VKurtB]

My vacations ARE coin shows. No difference at all. Even my U.K. trip was highly coin related. 

[Zebo]

6 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

1st time at FUN 9 months ago....met some of the posters here and at CT....had a GREAT time, only thing different would be to book the same hotel as the guys and also not schedule my dinner with a friend on the same night as the dinner with forum folks.

I was looking forward to the ANA show in Pittsburg and would like to attend the NYINC show. I'm not crazy about NYC - been there enough for work (sorry), but would make an exception for the NYINC show.  Baltimore shows are a nice size. I tried to meet up with one of the forum members, but timing did not work out. There are a couple others that I'll meet next time. FUN is doable if I mix it in with family visits. Central States was on the schedule for 2021 - but no longer as I believe that their April show may be cancelled. The only draw that I have to Long Beach would be to meet a foreign dealer and collector. Unfortunately that is not enough to persuade me to visit California (been there too much for work).

  I imagine that you fly to FUN - ever thought about taking the train (long ride)? 

[GoldFinger1969]

4 hours ago, Zebo said:

I was looking forward to the ANA show in Pittsburg and would like to attend the NYINC show. I'm not crazy about NYC - been there enough for work (sorry), but would make an exception for the NYINC show.  Baltimore shows are a nice size. I tried to meet up with one of the forum members, but timing did not work out. There are a couple others that I'll meet next time. FUN is doable if I mix it in with family visits. Central States was on the schedule for 2021 - but no longer as I believe that their April show may be cancelled. The only draw that I have to Long Beach would be to meet a foreign dealer and collector. Unfortunately that is not enough to persuade me to visit California (been there too much for work).

  I imagine that you fly to FUN - ever thought about taking the train (long ride)? 

I DID take the train.  Train down, flew back.  But with the seminars starting before the show and the train needing parts of 2 days to get to Florida, it means I have to leave even earlier to take the train and take the courses in the future.  I kinda wish the courses ran concurrent with the show.

I've been meaning to do the Baltimore Whitman Show as I could check it out in 1 day with driving.  It's probably 3 hours away, less if I leave from my parents home in NJ.  Ditto the Bay Head Show which I understand has increased in popularity in MA (again, for me probably 3-4 hours driving 1-way if I want to make it a 1-day event). 

NYINC show is easy to attend if I want to since I live in the NY suburbs.  

Larger regional shows near lots of collectors seem to be doing OK in recent years.  The "cheapo" monthly or quarterly shows are losing attendees and dealers but the larger regionals along the East Coast especially seem to be doing OK.

Edited October 18, 2020 by GoldFinger1969

[World Colonial]

13 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Larger regional shows near lots of collectors seem to be doing OK in recent years.  The "cheapo" monthly or quarterly shows are losing attendees and dealers but the larger regionals along the East Coast especially seem to be doing OK.

I would like to go to the Dalton (GA) show at least once but just never prioritized it.  It's a large regional one.

[GoldFinger1969]

Just now, World Colonial said:

I would like to go to the Dalton (GA) show at least once but just never prioritized it.  It's a large regional one.

I saw it advertised at FUN -- February or March, right ?

Edited October 18, 2020 by GoldFinger1969

[World Colonial]

5 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I saw it advertised at FUN -- February or March, right ?

April to my recollection.  Maybe twice per year, can't remember.

I don't see much future for smaller ones, though it obviously depends upon the quality of dealer turnout.  I can see collectors wanting to view coins directly, but to a point only.  It's not like most most dealers have compelling inventory to make it worth going out of their way. 

Also for the monthly ones, probably mostly the same inventory most of the time.  I went to the monthly Atlanta a few times, maybe 30 years ago.  35 tables to my recollection with not worth much buying, and this was before I gave up buying US.

Edited October 18, 2020 by World Colonial

[GoldFinger1969]

12 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

I don't see much future for smaller ones, though it obviously depends upon the quality of dealer turnout.  I can see collectors wanting to view coins directly, but to a point only.  It's not like most most dealers have compelling inventory to make it worth going out of their way. 

Near me, the quarterly Westchester Show has been fading but it's still alive.  But the newer Mt. Kisco Show which I attended late last year before the virus hit seemted to have a few newer dealers (even though it's in the same general area) and a much nicer location.  Also, the Parsippany Show in NJ has held up very nicely since it can draw from NY, NY, PA, DE, and MD even though it's a 1-day Sunday monthly.

Again, how these shows bounce back I don't know since I haven't attended any shows since February.  I doubt ANY of the local shows have taken place since then, too.

Edited October 18, 2020 by GoldFinger1969

[World Colonial]

34 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Near me, the quarterly Westchester Show has been fading but it's still alive.  But the newer Mt. Kisco Show which I attended late last year before the virus hit seemted to have a few newer dealers (even though it's in the same general area) and a much nicer location.  Also, the Parsippany Show in NJ has held up very nicely since it can draw from NY, NY, PA, DE, and MD even though it's a 1-day Sunday monthly.

Again, how these shows bounce back I don't know since I haven't attended any shows since February.  I doubt ANY of the local shows have taken place since then, too.

You are in a better area of the country for this than I am and most others.  Higher concentration of collectors and maybe dealers.  Probably better material (variety wise anyway) too.

[GoldFinger1969]

3 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

You are in a better area of the country for this than I am and most others.  Higher concentration of collectors and maybe dealers.  Probably better material (variety wise anyway) too.

Yup, although most of the inventory seems to repeat.  You wonder if, for instance, the Parsippany Show should be bi-monthly or quarterly.  But I guess the economics work to do it monthly or they would have changed the frequency.

[VKurtB]

6 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I DID take the train.  Train down, flew back.  But with the seminars starting before the show and the train needing parts of 2 days to get to Florida, it means I have to leave even earlier to take the train and take the courses in the future.  I kinda wish the courses ran concurrent with the show.

I've been meaning to do the Baltimore Whitman Show as I could check it out in 1 day with driving.  It's probably 3 hours away, less if I leave from my parents home in NJ.  Ditto the Bay Head Show which I understand has increased in popularity in MA (again, for me probably 3-4 hours driving 1-way if I want to make it a 1-day event). 

NYINC show is easy to attend if I want to since I live in the NY suburbs.  

Larger regional shows near lots of collectors seem to be doing OK in recent years.  The "cheapo" monthly or quarterly shows are losing attendees and dealers but the larger regionals along the East Coast especially seem to be doing OK.

Funny, I take Amtrak a lot, a WHOLE lot over the years. I usually fly in and take the train home, but 2019 Rosemont was the reverse. I’ve gone to Florida both ways by train, and took the L.A. to New Orleans Sunset Limited after the Anaheim 2016 show, taking a two hop Southwest Airlines route to get there. I used to commute daily by Amtrak so I got gazillions of Amtrak Guest Rewards points.

Edited October 18, 2020 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

12 hours ago, Zebo said:

I was looking forward to the ANA show in Pittsburg and would like to attend the NYINC show. I'm not crazy about NYC - been there enough for work (sorry), but would make an exception for the NYINC show.  Baltimore shows are a nice size. I tried to meet up with one of the forum members, but timing did not work out. There are a couple others that I'll meet next time. FUN is doable if I mix it in with family visits. Central States was on the schedule for 2021 - but no longer as I believe that their April show may be cancelled. The only draw that I have to Long Beach would be to meet a foreign dealer and collector. Unfortunately that is not enough to persuade me to visit California (been there too much for work).

  I imagine that you fly to FUN - ever thought about taking the train (long ride)? 

Zebo,

Because you seem to be an advanced world collector, this next bit may not apply to you, but the NYINC can pretty quickly become intimidating to many collectors. The majority of the dealers are from other countries, and the world and ancient material on offer there will “shiver your timbers”. I’ve now been to 5 NYINC’s and I still am not used to the highbrow nature of it. It is a humbling experience. I watched guys counting out $100’s like they were singles buying medieval gold pieces. The seminars are beyond compare. You need to go. The current site is IMO the best to date. I’ve been to the World Trade Center one, and the Waldorf Astoria one, but this is the best. Do not expect to see everything in slabs. Many world dealers don’t roll that way. Lots of big number coins lying in velour Abafil trays. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by VKurtB