Scarcity of 1879-1890 silver coins was contemporary knowledge 0

[RWB]

This is one of several letters requesting halves and quarters from the 1879-1891 period. It makes it clear that coin collectors were aware of the scarcity of these coins and interested in obtaining them for their collections. In turn, this helps explain the high survival rates in nice condition of these halves and quarters.

January 11, 1891

Director,

U.S. Mint

Dear Sir,

            Will you inform me on the enclosed postal [card] if there is any way in which I can obtain two sets of silver half dollars and quarters from the years 1883 to 1891.

            Coins of these denominations for those years do not circulate here, as I have watched for several years all that came in my possession and they are invariably below the year 1879.

            You will do me a favor by giving me the information.

            Very respectfully, etc.

            H. C. Houston

Edited March 31, 2020 by RWB

[DWLange]

It's well documented that there were so many fractional silver coins in circulation after the big coinage of 1875-78 that production had to be suspended in that later year to conform with the law. The Specie Resumption Act provided that there could be no more than $50 million combined value in United States Notes (aka greenbacks) and fractional silver coins, since both were of limited legal tender value. This law was finally overturned in 1906, because it so greatly restricted economic expansion. By that time, however, the Treasury had been quietly ignoring it for some time by coining more subsidiary silver pieces than allowed out of sheer necessity.

Coin collectors and dealers in the Philadelphia area scooped up most of the low-mintage dimes, quarters and halves of the 1879-90 period as soon as they were issued, so it's not surprising that they didn't circulate very far afield. To this day, Mint State survivors are far more common in proportion to their mintages than coins which were made in the millions.

[RWB]

The bump in subsidiary silver began in 1891 and was openly ignored starting with 1892 and the new Barber(ic) silver designs.

Among the letters inquiring about halves and quarters of this period, there are no requests for proof examples - only uncirculated.

[GoldFinger1969]

Very interesting.....I'd be interested in seeing letters from Mint and Treasury personnel regarding Saint-Gaudens DEs and what they thought about them being used in regular commerce...being collected....and used in international finance (Dawes Plan).

 

 

[RWB]

4 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Very interesting.....I'd be interested in seeing letters from Mint and Treasury personnel regarding Saint-Gaudens DEs and what they thought about them being used in regular commerce...being collected....and used in international finance (Dawes Plan).

 

 

To the Mint Bureau, double eagles were just another coin to be manufactured. Design didn't matter once the production kinks were worked out. It was also common internal knowledge that there were a few gold coin collectors. As noted in another post, the Treasurer of the US kept a small supply so his office could respond to requests. This was cheaper, safer and easier for collectors, plus the Treasurer could maintain closer control over gold use.

DE were never really part of "regular commerce" - at least not in the US. They were primarily made for export, although they circulated to a limited extent in Alaska, Western Canada and Western Mexico. Half and quarter eagles were used in Asia primarily as jewelry pieces, much like gold dollars and three-dollar pieces in Britain.and among low-end American jewelers.

[RWB]

PS: Dawes Plan gold and other European loans show on gold export records. You'll fine this in the DE book, also.

[GoldFinger1969]

Roger, to the best of your knowledge, any idea how many people were collecting Saint DE's in the 1920's and 1930's when they were minted (I presume the number declined after 1929) ?  Are we talking a few people, very wealthy, or were there dozens or maybe hundreds who might have wanted to get the DEs hot off the presses when they were struck early in the year from the customer service desk ?

It would be interesting to see how many DEs the customer service desk gave out to individual collectors, proxies who ran them coins back to their wealthy patrons, or others who took a tour of the Philly Mint and got a Saint at the end of the tour.  After a few years, they would know if it was the same 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 people lining up to get the coins early in the year or doing a mail order.  If it was dozens or hundreds, then they wouldn't stand out.  Either way, they'd have an idea.

Granted, the average collector probably worked on less-expensive coins.  But if you wanted just 1 DE a year, it was not something you needed to be living on Park Avenue to afford.  And you could always sell or spend it if times got tough.

Edited April 2, 2020 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

It's difficult to identify where most of the DE sold by the Treasurer ended up. A substantial proportion of buyers were Treasury Department employees and some are clearly identified as being part of retirement/special event gifts. There were also the well-known gold collectors whose names pop up in the books by Akers and others. They got coins over the counter at various mints. Active gold coin collectors might be estimated by the quantities of gold proofs sold from 1900 to 1915 in each denomination. The level of "dedication" represented by the denomination of coins sold. (Guide Book proof numbers are OK; but there were no proof MCMVII high relief coins struck.)

People on mint tours were most likely to buy a proof set (silver, or minor, or both), maybe a small medalette with the Lord's prayer on the back - depending on what was available at the time of the visit. This is something that makes identifying proof coin buyers impossible - the sets sold at the Philadelphia Mint were cash transactions. Only sets bought by dealers or by mail generated transaction records. Here's an example from 1895 - that's it; less than  a page although know that 880 proof dollars were sold/distributed that year. (There were thousands of visitors each year; many from out of town and wanting a "unique" souvenir.)

Edited April 2, 2020 by RWB

[GoldFinger1969]

Fascinating, thanks....need to hit your book when it arrives next week.  Looking forward to it.  Hopefully Heritage ships it ASAP and 2-day or something.

[Conder101]

Another place you might check would be the NNP and look for auction catalogs from the 20's and 30's with prices realized.  That might give you some idea of the demand level for rare date pieces.  That would tell you something about the demand level.

[GoldFinger1969]

21 minutes ago, Conder101 said:

Another place you might check would be the NNP and look for auction catalogs from the 20's and 30's with prices realized.  That might give you some idea of the demand level for rare date pieces.  That would tell you something about the demand level.

I've never used it -- heck, just learned about it -- but it seems I should spend some time there.  Thanks, C101 !