You Tube "experts' values" vs. ebay 0

[tmuro]

Hello everyone, I'm very new to the hobby and very confused; I've been watching You Tube videos regarding coin values (specifically Lincoln cents) and collectors such as Couch Collectibles and JB Coins both site coins graded by PCGS as achieving very high auction values. Example: 1964 Lincoln cent graded at MS 67+, and it sold at auction for more than $4000.00? Yet, I can go to ebay and buy a BU 1964 Lincoln cent for under $10.00, and in some cases, under $1.00. Wouldn't a BU 1964 cent grade at least an MS 67, being uncirculated? And if that's true, why isn't everyone buying these pennies and flipping them at auction, even if they have to spend the money to grade them? So maybe you can understand my confusion...I know I'm missing something here... can someone please shed some light on this? 

[JKK]

Sure. If you stop watching YT videos on coin values, you will be better informed, and much of your confusion will go away. I'm serious. You've already seen through their baloney and now the only thing you need to do is stop giving it mindshare.

As for Ebenezer, bear in mind that they can fake sales using a shell game. Account #1 lists it for $4000. Local pickup is an authorized means of shipment. Account #2 buys and opts for "local pickup" and payment. Account #1 marks it paid, tells Ebenezer he got cash. For the cost of the Ebenezer fees, there's now a "sale" on record for that much. Ebenezer doesn't care; they got their fees.

Edited January 4, 2020 by JKK

[kbbpll]

Agree with the answers so far. The best thing you can do is get off YouTube and start learning from valid resources like this website. For example, the population report for that 1964 cent, here. https://www.ngccoin.com/census/united-states/cents/100/

Note that there are very few coins in MS62 or MS63. This is not because they are rare in that grade, it's just that it's not worth paying the fees for such a common coin. Then you get into MS66 and see over 500 coins graded, MS67 only 29, and MS68 just 2. Wealthy collectors will pay lots of money fighting over those top-graded coins, and that's the stuff that ends up deceptively promoted on videos etc. Most of the rest of us would have a hard time seeing any difference between the MS66 and MS67 coins.

[JKK]

Your best option, if you really like coins and want to bridge over the bull*spoon*, is to find and join your local coin club. While some of them are Grumpy Geezer Gathering and Grousing Gaggles, many of them are excellent and delighted to have new members, whom they are glad to help and educate. I can't speak for other regions, but ours here in Portland is the best thing that can possibly happen to a new collector. We know the local dealers, most of us have specialties of interest and knowledge, and there's probably a thousand years of numismatic experience in every meeting. (Conservatively. 30 fiftysomethings who all began collecting at age 8 means 30 x 42 years, well over a thousand.) That's the sort of anti-baloney weaponry that is at your fingertips with a coin club.

[tmuro]

First, thanks to all who have so generously responded to my question. So, if I understand the replies so far, just because a coin is listed as "uncirculated", that doesn't mean that it will necessarily grade at a MS 60 or better. I just assumed that uncirculated meant that it was "near mint", if I can borrow a term from the diecast-collecting hobby. That makes more sense to me now. I will take your advice and look into local clubs... I appreciate all your input. Thank you again, and Happy New Year to all!

[kbbpll]

Actually, "uncirculated" means "mint state" (MS) or as-minted, meaning that all the marks on the coin are from mint handling and not circulation wear and tear. "Near mint" would be the AU grades. Anybody can claim BU or uncirculated in an ebay or other listing, but as Lancek stated above, on ebay they can only claim a specific numeric grade if it was assigned by PCGS, NGC, ANACS or ICG.

[Silvers last stop]

I must say ,I have seen "uncirculated "coins come straight out of mint boxes with more scratches on them than ones I CIRCULATION for a week

[JKK]

4 hours ago, tmuro said:

First, thanks to all who have so generously responded to my question. So, if I understand the replies so far, just because a coin is listed as "uncirculated", that doesn't mean that it will necessarily grade at a MS 60 or better. I just assumed that uncirculated meant that it was "near mint", if I can borrow a term from the diecast-collecting hobby. That makes more sense to me now. I will take your advice and look into local clubs... I appreciate all your input. Thank you again, and Happy New Year to all!

One thing that can muddy the waters--although professional grading services and experienced collectors are well aware of it--is strike weakness. Peace dollars, for example, were notorious for weak strikes, more so in some issues. I have seen them struck so weakly they lacked rims, just a sort of bevel-like diagonal between edge and surfaces. What that will mean is that the highest points, which are hardest to strike up, may never have fully existed on a given coin. On Peaces one such area is dead in the middle of the obverse, the locks of hair over her ear. A novice might look at them flattened and say, darn, circulated. A more experienced observer would look around at other evidence to make sure it wasn't just a soft strike.

We have a grade called AU (grades 50-58), almost uncirculated, which might be what you think of as 'near mint.' MS means mint state, and is taken literally--bearing in mind, as some have mentioned, that some issues experienced significant dinging and denting at the mint. That does not prevent them from being MS. It does, however, affect the level of MS (grades 60-70) that the coin will grade. For example, for 69, I believe a full strike is required, with unmarked brilliant surfaces free of even tiny visible dings, with the sole detractor being one tiny flaw detectable with a 10x loupe. In practice, most MS coins run from 60-63 until the modern day, in which original MS-69 and 70 strikes are the expected basic norm. For many 1800s issues, the finest graded examples run into the 66-67 range--and this is true even of proofs, which follow a parallel grading track.

Happy collecting.

[kbbpll]

32 minutes ago, Lancek said:

that $4000 number is completely made up

Not really - this one sold for $7931 in 2016. https://coins.ha.com/itm/lincoln-cents/small-cents/1964-1c-ms67-red-pcgs-pcgs-2890-/a/1231-4650.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

At the time, it was tied for top pop with 2 others, but now there's 11 in 67 and 1 67+ (at the other place). There's another at DL sold 2017 for $5700, but there's one past October at $720, so... ATS puts the price guide at $1450 for 67, and $85 at 66+, so it's pretty obvious how these registry set battles skew reality.

Edited January 5, 2020 by kbbpll

[tmuro]

It’s clear to me that I have a lot to learn about grading, as apparently there is a big difference between even one grade level as you get into the higher grades. And with that difference comes a great jump in value. I checked out the PCGS online photo grading page. I appreciate all the info forwarded so far....

[Revenant]

4 hours ago, tmuro said:

It’s clear to me that I have a lot to learn about grading, as apparently there is a big difference between even one grade level as you get into the higher grades. And with that difference comes a great jump in value. I checked out the PCGS online photo grading page. I appreciate all the info forwarded so far....

As you get into higher grades (67 and higher) they're all dumb near perfect and there's not much physical difference in the coins but the price difference can be huge. The difference between a 61 and a 66 or higher will be quite noticeable.

[VKurtB]

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2020 at 12:19 PM, tmuro said:

I've been watching You Tube videos regarding coin values (specifically Lincoln cents) and collectors such as Couch Collectibles and JB Coins

This is your first mistake. Disregard absolutely EVERYTHING you learned by watching those clowns. They are both worthless shysters.