A Note for VERY New Collectors - Errors
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5 hours ago, Dukemnm said:

Ok, So out of the Three Red Books, The wirebound or hardcover, the Mega red and the one posted by VKurtB which one is the best one for a newbie? 

 

For the newbie in this day and age, if they intend to use it hard and often, which I recommend, the wirebound regular one is my recommendation. One reason is it can lie flat open on a table while you keep both hands free for a coin and a magnifier. I use it with less constancy and more often to search for a particular thing, which makes the lie-flat aspect far less important. Plus, I started when the hardbound was the only choice and I like the constant look on my bookshelf. If I were a beginner today, I'd probably choose wirebound. More varieties are covered in the regular version than had been the case just a few years ago.

Edited by VKurtB

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23 hours ago, Conder101 said:

Kurt the reason why the youtubers stress errors and varieties, and why so many newbies come here asking about them is because since 1965 there is pretty much NOTHING that can be found in pocket change or roll hunting that has any value over face except varieties or errors.  And sets of circulating coins from 65 to date can be built roll hunting in just a few days.  There is no challenge in that.  So once they have those sets what do they do?  One of the thrills for a new collector is usually finding something good in their change or a roll.  Errors/varieties are about their only option.  It takes awhile and some serious interest to develop befor the move on to the next step where they are willing to shell out money, sometimes serious money, for the older or high grade coins.

I am kind or surprised there are no exhibits in the error category this year.  It does raise the question though whether this is the norm or are there usually exhibits in the category?

I've seen you "bad mouth" the interest in errors/varieties before.  I understand they hold no interest to you, but do you bad mounth the collecting o every field that doesn't interest you?

Four answers:

1) What about putting together the best quality set you can through replacement? What happened to that idea? By the way, at LEAST the W-mint quarters just blew away your otherwise valid premise.

2) The paucity of error or variety exhibiting at the ANA shows has become the norm. This is my 10th consecutive and the most I've ever seen in one show was 2, IIRC. Usually, it's zero.

3) If they were "real" varieties, that would be one thing. Overwhelmingly, they are not. They're "fake" varieties, such as strike or die deterioration doubling. And even at the ANA show, error dealers are quite few among literally a high three digit number of dealers in total. There's usually Fred Weinberg, and maybe one to two others, and that's about it. Letting newbies believe that they are onto the mainstream of numismatics is just wrong. They've been "played" by the YouTube jockeys. Are you suggesting being quiet about the biggest lie in the field, Conder?

4) I allowed in my original post that these people potentially have the collective power (of the market) to turn the hobby into their vision of it, but too many snake-oil salesmen are selling the lie that it's already there.

Edited by VKurtB

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"am a collector with 56years of experience, and frankly, Ihave never cared about errors orvarieties very much at all."

Anyone with 56 years of experience would never have that mind set. And age wise...I find it hard to believe you don't remember some of the most intriguing errors to come of light sense then? Real Game Changers on the value and interest levels...even if you don't like errors you couldn't of avoided this area of collecting and been a responsible dealer...

On 7/29/2019 at 3:09 PM, VKurtB said:

N's. Nobody, not one single person, has offered an exhibit of errors or varieties. No adult exhibitor, no YN. None at all

I'm in touch with the ANA as a Life Member and Donor, YN Sponsor. This is incorrect. Currently 4 are building sets and I know 2 volunteers that have dealt with Fred in California and purchase error coins to display/share and educate others....? Not to mention the other Great People in the error coin business who give their little free time they have and expenses they don't recover.

I noticed from other members comments what your rant is all about...just represent everything fairly please...and one more thing that is my only opinion here.....UNDERSTANDING WHAT CAUSES THE ERROR COINS IN THE COINING PROCESS IS THE MOST DIFFICULT AND REWARDING EXPERIENCE ONE CAN VENTURE INTO....

SOUNDS LIKE EGOS AND SHALLOW POCKETS DECIDED TO THROW THEIR ERROR 2 CENT PIECE IN...(PUN INTENDED)......OH YEAH, DID YOU KNOW 35% OF PEOPLE GET INTO COINS BECAUSE OF ERRORS....

56 YEARS...I WOULD SAY YEAH, NOT EVERY NEW COLLECTOR WANTS A 1955 OR AN 09-S....TIME TO MOVE ON FRIEND....

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That's where you risk being DEADWRONG. I buy the new Red Book every year and now the Mega Red, too. It is still my #1 source in U.S. Coins.

That's where you go wrong. It was my #1 source till I was like 12 then Eric Newman taught me how to source coin information....

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10 hours ago, Numismatic, A.A.S. said:
On 7/29/2019 at 3:09 PM, VKurtB said:

N's. Nobody, not one single person, has offered an exhibit of errors or varieties. No adult exhibitor, no YN. None at all

I'm in touch with the ANA as a Life Member and Donor, YN Sponsor. This is incorrect. Currently 4 are building sets and I know 2 volunteers that have dealt with Fred in California and purchase error coins to display/share and educate others....?

What does that have to do with anything? I'm talking about formal exhibiting, at the Exhibits section of the show floor. There are 21 "open" exhibit categories, and 7 specific to Young Numismatists. Class 16 and Y-7 are set aside for errors and/or varieties. NOT A SINGLE PERSON has entered an exhibit in Class 16 or Y-7 at Rosemont, and that is not the exception in recent years. Yes, the 1955 Doubled Die 001 cent is a classic, so is the correct 1969-S 001 cent. Most of the rest that people are chasing are "meh" at best.

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2 cents coming at you, only because mine eyes are tired so I can't see my coins and I am bored...

I wonder if you Emicoins is still following this thread as you fellows go at each other about a whole lot of nothing except who can be pompous than the last. Lighten up, will you please?

We know you guys have 100+ years in the hobby and likely lnow more than the rest of us combined in whichever area you have chosen to concetrate on. So I shall judge you equal on knowledge of the coin. But only on your respective areas. So egos are a wash.

Errors are cool. I just got an Attribution for Wexler's/Ribar's Doubled Die website listings and am absolutely on top of the world. Anything that makes a girl feel this good cannot be bad. I have cracked/crazing skulls that would blow your mind and sometimes I like to look at simple Die Chips like they are clouds in the sky and I am a little girl lying in the grass making pictures of them. Tell me, Sir, how reliving a childhood joy can be useless or a big lie? Errors aren't only DD's. There are many different things that can happen during the minting process that can create a coin that is really cool to look at. Take ole boys 76 Eisenhower as an example. Is that not the coolest tidbit of Numismatic mystery you've heard about for quite some time? I know it has many of us scratching our heads. So, now error coins bring people together too. People who would otherwise be bored and lonely now have a common interest in figuring out how the spoon did that Ike wind up on the wrong metal when the weight matches nothing. 

Yes, youtube videos are bunk, for the most part. But what about the ones that deal with the processes a coin must go through to become a coin? Those are informative and show us all how these errors occur in the first place, except for that Ike. So yeah, stay away from BJ's whoever's page and any like it, but don't cast them all down to Hates, because some of us are not wealthy or even 'doing ok' enough financially to have ever had gone on vacation much less to an actual Mint Facility and see the workings firsthand. So please be clear with what you say and don't group things together that should be kept separate. 

Am I rambling again? I tend to do that when I'm tired. And I apologize, yet will continue on...

Making the same point repeatedly doesn't make the point any more acceptable. I get that, like my Dad, people get set in their ways and in how they think, but even Dear Daddy-O enjoyed sitting and watching videos of Rodney Dangerfield and Rockabilly Shows.  AC/DC and Nervous Norvous. He even listened to Cake and Lamb Of God. You wanna know why? Well ima tell you anyway...because as old fashioned and set in his ways that he was, he still saw the value of broadening his knowledge base and thus his horizons, because staying stuck in one place makes life monotonous and boring. And if ones life is monotonous and boring then so is that one. I'm sure none of us wants to grow old and cratchety. So get on your media device of choice, be it a PC or a CherryPickers Column and broaden your horizons. Because being narrow minded will leave you out and away from everyone else, all by yourself and lonely. And nobody wants to be alone, for real.

So let's am click this link ima sharing here, and stop this arguing and have a good laugh together instead. Ok? How about it? It'll be fun, just you watch it and see.

 

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On 8/1/2019 at 5:26 PM, VKurtB said:

1) What about putting together the best quality set you can through replacement? What happened to that idea? By the way, at LEAST the W-mint quarters just blew away your otherwise valid premise.

You can do that is you want, was never much of an interest for me.  Once I got set complete that was it.  and as for the W mint quarters they have only been out for four months, most of the yourtube videos you complain about are considerably older.

 

On 8/1/2019 at 5:26 PM, VKurtB said:

2) The paucity of error or variety exhibiting at the ANA shows has become the norm. This is my 10th consecutive and the most I've ever seen in one show was 2, IIRC. Usually, it's zero.

Thanks, that answered that question.

 

On 8/1/2019 at 5:26 PM, VKurtB said:

3) If they were "real" varieties, that would be one thing. Overwhelmingly, they are not. They're "fake" varieties, such as strike or die deterioration doubling. And even at the ANA show, error dealers are quite few among literally a high three digit number of dealers in total. There's usually Fred Weinberg, and maybe one to two others, and that's about it. Letting newbies believe that they are onto the mainstream of numismatics is just wrong. They've been "played" by the YouTube jockeys. Are you suggesting being quiet about the biggest lie in the field, Conder?

I don't watch youtube videos are a general rule, but I've never noticed them implying that errors and varieties are the "mainstream", just that they coins they highlight are potentially valuable.  nd re you saying that the youtube vidiao are highlighting strike and die deterioration doubling?  Like I said I don't really watch them but most of what I have seen have highlighted real varieites.

 

On 8/1/2019 at 11:21 PM, Numismatic, A.A.S. said:

Anyone with 56 years of experience would never have that mind set.

I can believe it.  There are many collectors who just that, collectors.  All they car about is to have the best pieces they can find/afford.  They know the dates/mints in their series, which they have or still need and quite possibly guide prices of same.  And that is all they know. No history, nothing about how coins are made/distributed, why they exist etc.  They may or may not be able to accurately grade them, but in many cases they just read slab labels.

 

On 8/1/2019 at 11:21 PM, Numismatic, A.A.S. said:

I'm in touch with the ANA as a Life Member and Donor, YN Sponsor. This is incorrect. Currently 4 are building sets and I know 2 volunteers that have dealt with Fred in California and purchase error coins to display/share and educate others....?

But are they exhibiting at the ANA shows?  Apparently not.

 

On 8/1/2019 at 11:21 PM, Numismatic, A.A.S. said:

.UNDERSTANDING WHAT CAUSES THE ERROR COINS IN THE COINING PROCESS IS THE MOST DIFFICULT AND REWARDING EXPERIENCE ONE CAN VENTURE INTO....

It is if that is what floats your boat, but you can still have an interst in that but have no interest in the errors themselves.  I want to know as much about the minting process as possible, but I have no interest in actually collecting error coins.

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11 hours ago, Conder101 said:

You can do that is you want, was never much of an interest for me.  Once I got set complete that was it.  and as for the W mint quarters they have only been out for four months, most of the yourtube videos you complain about are considerably older.

 

Thanks, that answered that question.

 

I don't watch youtube videos are a general rule, but I've never noticed them implying that errors and varieties are the "mainstream", just that they coins they highlight are potentially valuable.  nd re you saying that the youtube vidiao are highlighting strike and die deterioration doubling?  Like I said I don't really watch them but most of what I have seen have highlighted real varieites.

 

I can believe it.  There are many collectors who just that, collectors.  All they car about is to have the best pieces they can find/afford.  They know the dates/mints in their series, which they have or still need and quite possibly guide prices of same.  And that is all they know. No history, nothing about how coins are made/distributed, why they exist etc.  They may or may not be able to accurately grade them, but in many cases they just read slab labels.

 

But are they exhibiting at the ANA shows?  Apparently not.

 

It is if that is what floats your boat, but you can still have an interst in that but have no interest in the errors themselves.  I want to know as much about the minting process as possible, but I have no interest in actually collecting error coins.

Conder, you asked a serious question earlier that deserves a precise answer. I have discovered that I do have a pretty extensive set of past ANA World's Fair of Money Programs, and I'm starting typing this as I have them on the couch behind me. Here are the numbers, year by year, going backwards:

2019 Chicago - none

2018 Philadelphia - two (One in state quarter errors, one in Lincoln cents)

2017 Denver - none

2016 Anaheim - two (One in Connecticut coppers, one in 1880's Morgans)

2015 Chicago - none

2014 Chicago and before - listings not in the program, in a separate flyer distributed at the show

 

Here's my thesis - Internet and "in-person going to shows and auctions and coin club meetings" types of numismatics are far more different  hobbies than either side realizes, because the number of people experiencing BOTH is unbelievably small. It's not just a different medium, it's an entirely different hobby at a fairly fundamental level.

 

And PLEASE don't think I am only berating the Internet portion for being out of touch with the "real in person" portion, but they are. I will ALSO be spreading this message far and wide during 7 days in the greater Chicago area. They think they "want" the Internet portion in the ANA, but my premise will be they first need to invest in UNDERSTANDING it, and there is precious little evidence that work has been done. You can't just slap up a website and be done.

Edited by VKurtB

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On 8/3/2019 at 3:55 AM, Conder101 said:

You can do that is you want, was never much of an interest for me.  Once I got set complete that was it.  and as for the W mint quarters they have only been out for four months, most of the yourtube videos you complain about are considerably older.

 

Thanks, that answered that question.

 

I don't watch youtube videos are a general rule, but I've never noticed them implying that errors and varieties are the "mainstream", just that they coins they highlight are potentially valuable.  nd re you saying that the youtube vidiao are highlighting strike and die deterioration doubling?  Like I said I don't really watch them but most of what I have seen have highlighted real varieites.

 

I can believe it.  There are many collectors who just that, collectors.  All they car about is to have the best pieces they can find/afford.  They know the dates/mints in their series, which they have or still need and quite possibly guide prices of same.  And that is all they know. No history, nothing about how coins are made/distributed, why they exist etc.  They may or may not be able to accurately grade them, but in many cases they just read slab labels.

 

But are they exhibiting at the ANA shows?  Apparently not.

 

It is if that is what floats your boat, but you can still have an interst in that but have no interest in the errors themselves.  I want to know as much about the minting process as possible, but I have no interest in actually collecting error coins.

My passion for Coins in business and personal life override my rationale thinking at times, I concede.

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On 8/2/2019 at 9:49 AM, VKurtB said:

What does that have to do with anything? I'm talking about formal exhibiting, at the Exhibits section of the show floor. There are 21 "open" exhibit categories, and 7 specific to Young Numismatists. Class 16 and Y-7 are set aside for errors and/or varieties. NOT A SINGLE PERSON has entered an exhibit in Class 16 or Y-7 at Rosemont, and that is not the exception in recent years. Yes, the 1955 Doubled Die 001 cent is a classic, so is the correct 1969-S 001 cent. Most of the rest that people are chasing are "meh" at best.

As a seller I see a different side of things. I don't think the enrollment issue means a serious drop or major decline happening. A 19 yr. acquired a "peg leg" when this whole conversation started and a client said his son who's 11 decided to start collecting different rare "wide/close am's". That is my recent reality check.

And actual error coins....there's several people going back and forth collecting certain years, by design, etc...just because some Adults with Children both decide not to enroll in class, (for financial,personal or vacation purposes) doesn't prove no interest or EXHIBITION SITUATIONS. 

I think Rosemount is a different situation. Club sponsorship I think. 

Financially people are still strapped badly (not a political statement) so interest is growing like in the depression years as our hobby did then. Kids and adults not participating in Exhibits on the show floor are for reasons not showing a drastic effect.

In Denver, CO during the ANA 2017 there were youth hockey, motor sports and a video gamer event around the same time the amount kids at the Coin Show was noticeably higher.

And I meant that those most known common error coins we older people dealt with....really are down in sales in my world. The exotic unknown or "uninteresting" coins to many are an underground movement along with Gold......

You Said...."Most of the rest that people are chasing are "meh" at best."

I'll leave that alone.....peace brother

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On 8/3/2019 at 1:17 AM, KarenHolcomb said:

2 cents coming at you, only because mine eyes are tired so I can't see my coins and I am bored...

I wonder if you Emicoins is still following this thread as you fellows go at each other about a whole lot of nothing except who can be pompous than the last. Lighten up, will you please?

We know you guys have 100+ years in the hobby and likely lnow more than the rest of us combined in whichever area you have chosen to concetrate on. So I shall judge you equal on knowledge of the coin. But only on your respective areas. So egos are a wash.

Errors are cool. I just got an Attribution for Wexler's/Ribar's Doubled Die website listings and am absolutely on top of the world. Anything that makes a girl feel this good cannot be bad. I have cracked/crazing skulls that would blow your mind and sometimes I like to look at simple Die Chips like they are clouds in the sky and I am a little girl lying in the grass making pictures of them. Tell me, Sir, how reliving a childhood joy can be useless or a big lie? Errors aren't only DD's. There are many different things that can happen during the minting process that can create a coin that is really cool to look at. Take ole boys 76 Eisenhower as an example. Is that not the coolest tidbit of Numismatic mystery you've heard about for quite some time? I know it has many of us scratching our heads. So, now error coins bring people together too. People who would otherwise be bored and lonely now have a common interest in figuring out how the spoon did that Ike wind up on the wrong metal when the weight matches nothing. 

Yes, youtube videos are bunk, for the most part. e. So yeah, stay away from BJ's whoever's page and any like it, but don't cast them all down to Hates, because some of us are not wealthy or even 'doing ok' enough financially to have ever had gone on vacation much less to an actual Mint Facility and see the workings firsthand. So please be clear with what you say and don't group things together that should be kept separate. 

Am I rambling again? I tend to do that when I'm tired. And I apologize, yet will continue on...

Making the same point repeatedly doesn't make the point any more acceptable. I get that, like my Dad, people get set in their ways and in how they think, but even Dear Daddy-O enjoyed sitting and watching videos of Rodney Dangerfield and Rockabilly Shows.  AC/DC and Nervous Norvous. He even listened to Cake and Lamb Of God. You wanna know why? Well ima tell you anyway...because as old fashioned and set in his ways that he was, he still saw the value of broadening his knowledge base and thus his horizons, because staying stuck in one place makes life monotonous and boring. And if ones life is monotonous and boring then so is that one. I'm sure none of us wants to grow old and cratchety. So get on your media device of choice, be it a PC or a CherryPickers Column and broaden your horizons. Because being narrow minded will leave you out and away from everyone else, all by yourself and lonely. And nobody wants to be alone, for real.

So let's am click this link ima sharing here, and stop this arguing and have a good laugh together instead. Ok? How about it? It'll be fun, just you watch it and see.

 

That pretty much sums it up.....peace 

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4 hours ago, Numismatic, A.A.S. said:

In Denver, CO during the ANA 2017 there were youth hockey, motor sports and a video gamer event around the same time the amount kids at the Coin Show was noticeably higher.

You missed the huge musical event out at Red Rock. The overall attendance at Denver ANA was a complete train wreck. The next one, at Philadelphia. had several TIMES the overall attendance. Advance PRE-registration by ANA members for  Philadelphia blew TOTAL attendance for Denver out of the water.

Edited by VKurtB

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On 8/1/2019 at 2:13 PM, VKurtB said:

For the newbie in this day and age, if they intend to use it hard and often, which I recommend, the wirebound regular one is my recommendation. One reason is it can lie flat open on a table while you keep both hands free for a coin and a magnifier. I use it with less constancy and more often to search for a particular thing, which makes the lie-flat aspect far less important. Plus, I started when the hardbound was the only choice and I like the constant look on my bookshelf. If I were a beginner today, I'd probably choose wirebound. More varieties are covered in the regular version than had been the case just a few years ago.

 Thank you!

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11 hours ago, Dukemnm said:

 Thank you!

I just bought a 1982 Red Book for my set. The holes continue to decrease in number.

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13 hours ago, VKurtB said:

I just bought a 1982 Red Book for my set. The holes continue to decrease in number.

I was looking for the RedBook on ebay and I came across some earlier years and I thought to myself, hmm maybe I should start collecting these as well.  I reminded myself, one thing at a time. I didn't want a seated liberty dollar scenario again. 

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8 hours ago, Dukemnm said:

I was looking for the RedBook on ebay and I came across some earlier years and I thought to myself, hmm maybe I should start collecting these as well.  I reminded myself, one thing at a time. I didn't want a seated liberty dollar scenario again. 

There is even a Red book for Red Books:

image.png.9aa2fa6667cebb93b3b41d45167d1516.png

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11 hours ago, Just Bob said:

There is even a Red book for Red Books:

image.png.9aa2fa6667cebb93b3b41d45167d1516.png

Don't think about this too hard. It'll warp your mind. I have a few "valuable" ones, but most are run of the mill stuff. Most of the "good ones" are limited production ones for major coin clubs or numismatic events. I need the early 1980's because that's when I stepped away for a few years.

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