Lowell Massachusetts ATB 5oz Proof Problem
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I ordered a proof 5oz Lowell Massachusetts America the beautiful hockey puck and it came to me with visible signs of scratching along the circle of the writing on the Jefferson front as well as scratches to the breast. Should I return this to the mint or could this be even more collectible now? Thanks in advance, Mark

IMG_20190414_124617.jpg

Edited by Mark Kratzer
Added pic.

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Ya know, the part about would this be more collectible made me chuckle.  Only because earlier today I was thinking of modern proofs and deep/ultra cameo designations and such and amused myself with the clever little thought that at this point a non-cameo issue proof would be the exception and qualify for condition rarity.  The census reports are quite interesting in that regard...

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Why would you think being damaged after it was struck would make it more collectible?

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11 hours ago, Mark Kratzer said:

I ordered a proof 5oz Lowell Massachusetts America the beautiful hockey puck and it came to me with visible signs of scratching along the circle of the writing on the Jefferson front as well as scratches to the breast. Should I return this to the mint or could this be even more collectible now? Thanks in advance, Mark

return it senior.

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5 hours ago, Conder101 said:

Why would you think being damaged after it was struck would make it more collectible?

Because when coins come off the line with errors they are often worth more. Did I have to explain that?

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I dont see what the error is here? The coin has significant scratches as you've stated. What about scratches makes it an error? 

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Do you mean clash marks or something similar and are just using the generic term scratches?  Because as Condor 101 said " Why would you think being damaged after it was struck would make it more collectible?".  

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3 hours ago, Mark Kratzer said:

Because when coins come off the line with errors they are often worth more. Did I have to explain that?

Errors, maybe, ‘damage after strike’ as Condor noted, never.

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4 hours ago, Mark Kratzer said:

Because when coins come off the line with errors they are often worth more. Did I have to explain that?

That response was a bit rude in my opinion. Conder101 asked a legitimate question, and if I know him, was probably trying to determine from your response whether it was indeed a scratch, or if it was something else, like a die crack. A scratch on a coin is not an error.

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10 hours ago, Conder101 said:

Why would you think being damaged after it was struck would make it more collectible?

This was during striking, not after. See attached near the end of America, that circle goes part way around the coin.

IMG_20190414_124617.jpg

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11 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

That response was a bit rude in my opinion. Conder101 asked a legitimate question, and if I know him, was probably trying to determine from your response whether it was indeed a scratch, or if it was something else, like a die crack. A scratch on a coin is not an error.

OMG, I never said coin was damaged after strike. His comment was rude and assumed that I was mistakenly even asking a question. If people on this beginner board are that intolerant, then maybe they should just hang out with the experts?

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17 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

That response was a bit rude in my opinion. Conder101 asked a legitimate question, and if I know him, was probably trying to determine from your response whether it was indeed a scratch, or if it was something else, like a die crack. A scratch on a coin is not an error.

Here is his reply - Why would you think being damaged after it was struck would make it more collectible?  I never said the coin was damaged after striking. I asked a simple question just seeking info on if I should return the item die to scratching that's all. I've added a pic now that shows some of the scratch and I should have done that before but remember, this is a beginners thread so please have patience and don't pass judgement.

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2 hours ago, Mokiechan said:

Do you mean clash marks or something similar and are just using the generic term scratches?  Because as Condor 101 said " Why would you think being damaged after it was struck would make it more collectible?".  

Look at the original question please as I never said it was damaged AFTER striking. It came from he Mint in the condition noted. I now added a photo that shows part of the circular scratch. Look at the A at the end of America. That scratch kinda goes circular around more than half seen at certain light angle.

IMG_20190414_124617.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

I think you are missing the point. It does not matter if you said that it was damaged. If it is indeed a scratch, it happened after the strike, and is not considered an error, but is considered damage. Whether it was scratched one millisecond or one hundred years after it was struck, it was still after the strike, and thus is not considered an error. No one is trying to give you a hard time or pass judgement, we just don't always make ourselves clear. 

Look at the pic? It wasn't damaged after strike because you can see the circular scratching the coin was made by a machine. The line goes perfectly through the United States of America inscription and blank areas so that's not made by a person.

IMG_20190414_124617.jpg

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I guess I am doing a poor job of explaining. 

When the hammer die reaches the end of its travel, the coin is considered struck. Once the die starts retracting, and begins its return to the resting position, anything that happens to the coin is considered to be after the strike. Whether the coin gets scratched by a part of the machine or by a person makes no difference. "After the strike" means at any point after the point of striking, not after it leaves the press.

Edited by Just Bob
Cleaning up the typing and spelling

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35 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

I think you are missing the point. It does not matter if you said that it was damaged. If it is indeed a scratch, it happened after the strike, and is not considered an error, but is considered damage. Whether it was scratched one millisecond or one hundred years after it was struck, it was still after the strike, and thus is not considered an error. No one is trying to give you a hard time or pass judgement, we just don't always make ourselves clear. 

Oh, well that makes all the sense in the world. So then I should initiate a return. Thank you very much sorry for the miscommunication.

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I mostly collect old lumber company and trade tokens, and scratches are usually "par for the course." Therefore, they don't bother me a whole lot in that situation. On a new coin, though, I would be very disappointed. I would send it back.

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4 hours ago, Just Bob said:

I think you are missing the point. It does not matter if you said that it was damaged. If it is indeed a scratch, it happened after the strike, and is not considered an error, but is considered damage. Whether it was scratched one millisecond or one hundred years after it was struck, it was still after the strike, and thus is not considered an error. No one is trying to give you a hard time or pass judgement, we just don't always make ourselves clear. 

bob must have a gorilla ding dong.

Edited by BipolarBaby

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50 minutes ago, Mark Kratzer said:

It's a beginners thread, if you can't be patient and you shouldn't be on it.

You’ve made quite an impression as a brand new member.  If you can’t develop some online etiquette maybe you should not be here. 

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5 minutes ago, Matt_dac said:

You’ve made quite an impression as a brand new member.  If you can’t develop some online etiquette maybe you should not be here. 

it's apparent to me that just like watch snobs coin snobs also exist on these boards. Who hang out on beginners threads and make fun of people asking beginners questions. Then when I stand up for myself you say that my etiquette is lacking. Why don't you ask about the people's etiquette who greet a new member in a beginner with smart remarks. No one asked for your opinion so move on. Do me a favor Mr. Perfect and put me on ignore.

Edited by Mark Kratzer
Some harrassmant

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