I read an article on CAC and found....
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Excellent article. A very good balanced summary of the two sides of this particular coin. 

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Very fair and informative!

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An excellent article.  I liked the fact that the information is up to date.

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Thank you for sharing.  I'm pretty new to the hobby and only have one CAC stickered coin.  It was definitely acquired at a premium, but I wanted the extra assurance buying it sight unseen.  

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It was an interesting article that made some good points to both sides of the issue regarding CAC.  Ultimately, both sides were presented well enough that I'm glad that I don't have to worry about the CAC issue as I do not collect US coins.  It would be very hard to decide between paying the premium for CAC coins or not after reading that.  Thanks for sharing it!

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Like it.

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Yes, this is the fairest article I have read to date about the CAC service. There is a lot of good advice here.

Edited by BillJones

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I think one the largest points made is KNOW THY SUBJECT. 

I have and been a registry user here for a while.

When NGC went all only "NGC only" in their registry's I was in a quandary ...do I submit / commit / give in.

Okay I did … :(

I had probably 25 pcgs coins in my circulating set of Morgan dollars ( That set is 105 coins ) - 5 I considered borderline grades. 

I consider myself excellent in grading MORGANS in hand but just 'better than average' in pictures.

I considered which 20 coins to send in and sent them in for NGC "CROSSOVER" service.

I hit 18 of 20 coins that crossed the 2 that did not cross were NOT MS grade.

I consider that just as good as a CAC sticker, 18 out of 20 coins that were graded the same at both NGC and PCGS.

Interesting note, ZERO graded higher.

I think I only own 1 coin that has a CAC sticker on it and its just cause it was there. 

In my mind I think CAC is ridiculous … a certification service the checks the grade of an already certified / graded coin.

NOT for me.  

That being said, I think that if you do not want to learn your "subject", I guess there is the need for this type of service.  

IF you followed my rambling thoughts , good for you :-) 

j

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I thought it was a good article also. I don't plan on searching out CAC'd coins nor do I care about the sticker. I buy my coins to my own eye appeal and can grade fairly decent myself. I have one coin with the green bean and it was only because I bought a 2 set of coins and one had the bean on it. I'm with Mike, I feel that if I pay a grading company to grade my coins, I have to have the confidence that they graded it accordingly and don't need another service to verify the companies work. 

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I think this assessment of CAC activity is accurate and real. But I am unclear how succession will be judged after John Albanese is gone. 2 or 3 generations later many of us will be gone also and who will judge TPGs' then ? Many cabinet coins of yesteryear have been deemed acceptable today that have rub and retoning even by CAC standards. How will your coins be judged 30 or 40 years from now ?

Edited by numisport

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Excellent article. There's no substitute for learning how to grade coins or at least be able to recognize the low end coins in a given grade. The number on a slab says nothing about strike, luster and eye appeal.

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Every one of my coins is either in the process of CAC review or headed in the next month for CAC review.  They're all in NGC Scratch-Resistant holders, now, too.

  • Incredibly clear views of beautiful old gold
  • Clean, white background framing-inserts
  • Crisp, black-print detail on holographic NGC security labels
  • And if lucky enough, beautiful, emerald green, holographic CAC stickers.

A CAC bean on an NGC holdered gold coin is a thing of beauty to behold.  Just a stunning presentation-combination that "pops" like nothing else can!

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4 hours ago, USAuPzlBxBob said:

 

A CAC bean on an NGC holdered gold coin is a thing of beauty to behold.  Just a stunning presentation-combination that "pops" like nothing else can!

I actually find the CAC stickers just as unappealing and distracting as all the other stickers that sellers and dealers put on the slabs. I think the modern NGC holders make for a great presentation - I like them more visually than the old fatty holders. But those stickers are just an ugly distraction to me. Main problem: they're stuck on in odd places and at odd angles and to one side of the coin. They destroy the visual symmetry and balance of the holder.

Edited by Revenant
Typo

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Happy St. Patrick's Day… a great day for emerald green.

And congrats to Rory winning The Players on St. Patrick's Day.

(Outside of the USA, I've spent more time in Northern Ireland than anywhere else in the world.  Part of my attraction to a CAC "bean?")

lol

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10 hours ago, numisport said:

I think this assessment of CAC activity is accurate and real. But I am unclear how succession will be judged after John Albanese is gone. 2 or 3 generations later many of us will be gone also and who will judge TPGs' then ? Many cabinet coins of yesteryear have been deemed acceptable today that have rub and retoning even by CAC standards. How will your coins be judged 30 or 40 years from now ?

Mr Albanese leaving is and should be a concern for everyone. How do you fill those shoes?

Who will be the ultimate arbiter when a reputation like that is retired?

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On 3/17/2019 at 8:18 PM, MAULEMALL said:

Mr Albanese leaving is and should be a concern for everyone. How do you fill those shoes?

Who will be the ultimate arbiter when a reputation like that is retired?

Yep what are those "footballs" worth then. Maybe the next guy will have "basketballs" to cover the already "footballed" coin on top of an already graded coin. :-)

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On 3/17/2019 at 7:18 PM, MAULEMALL said:

Mr Albanese leaving is and should be a concern for everyone. How do you fill those shoes?

Who will be the ultimate arbiter when a reputation like that is retired?

That seems to have been one of the things that hit PCGS hard as well and unfortunately that's a problem that NGC and any other organization can also befall. Succession and transition planning for organizations like that should always start early and occur often.

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On 3/17/2019 at 7:10 PM, Revenant said:

I actually find the CAC stickers just as unappealing and distracting as all the other stickers that sellers and dealers put on the slabs. I think the modern NGC holders make for a great presentation - I like them more visually than the old fatty holders. But those stickers are just an ugly distraction to me. Main problem: they're stuck on in odd places and at odd angles and to one side of the coin. They destroy the visual symmetry and balance of the holder.

The worst symmetry you can have with a holder is when the coin is not aligned correctly.

NGC doesn't have a method of nailing this down "precisely."  I tend to think, from watching the NGC video, that it is a one shot approach to coin placement, and if it is "close enough" to being properly aligned, then that is "good enough."

Isn't there an old saying out there… "Good enough" isn't good enough anymore."  (It's a 'quality" saying.)  Wish they'd get alignment improved to being imperceptibly under, or over, rotated.

Matter of fact, though, I've seen some coins in PCGS holders that have drift-rotated to being almost sideways, from the holders getting bounced around over time.

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Great comments above from everyone, got me thinking...a seasoned collector told me after a show we went to together that everything in life is a circle, like pi, has a place and time in our universe...he said some day no one will want slabbed coins and it will all go back to Raw Coins for new reasons and old ones....and so I wonder, probably won't be around by that time but maybe he's right?

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So I was thinking of the CAC service on a long drive the other day.  Read the original article here referenced when it came out although additional certification isn't anything I've needed or sought out yet so I'm ignorant of some business processes.

For those with better experience, what happens if CAC reviews a coin and determines it does not meet standards?  Is there a registry/pop report of submitted coins (thinking TPG cert number perhaps) that don't meet criteria?

From a retail buyer viewpoint, TPG + CAC sticker means all they need to know relatively sight unseen.  No real issues there.  From a dealer or speculator viewpoint, purchasing TPG coins with the intent to submit for CAC review but not knowing that this particular coin/slab has been submitted previously (maybe even multiple times) but failed to achieve certification would be a valuable resource.

Even for the CAC administration a registry, or lack thereof, of prior submissions presents 3 outcomes,

1) No prior submission registry: review a previously reviewed coin again, incurring FTE hours and impacting production supply chain, and reaching the same conclusion, same fee,

2) No prior submission registry:review a previously reviewed coin again, incurring FTE hours and impacting production supply chain, reaching a different conclusion and applying a sticker, same fee, potentially falling victim to a "let me resubmit later and see if I can expose a gotcha" situation,

3) Prior submission registry: not 100% accurate if coins are re-slabbed, crossed over, etc... and come in under a different TPG certification, but a submitter can avoid resubmitting, CAC employee time spent more effectively, potential improvement to production queue, yet losing out on the additional fee.

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NVM, already addressed on the FAQ site for CAC.  I should've done my research first...

6. Why can’t I use the CAC Verification Search to look up a PCGS or NGC graded coin that has no CAC sticker to find out if it has already been reviewed by CAC?

Many coins that CAC has reviewed, but did not sticker, have been accurately graded by PCGS or NGC. However, CAC stickers only coins that are solid for the grade, often referred to as B quality coins, and those that are considered high-end for the grade, which are often called A quality coins. Those that are accurately graded by PCGS or NGC, but are considered low-end for the grade and often referred to as C quality coins, are not stickered by CAC.

Furthermore, CAC wishes to protect the interest of an owner of a coin that has been reviewed by CAC but did not receive a sticker. Therefore, CAC does not want to compromise the value of such a coin by disclosing a negative review by CAC.

7. Are the serial numbers of PCGS or NGC coins submitted to CAC for verification recorded? If so, are coins automatically rejected by CAC that have previously been submitted but were not stickered?

The serial numbers of all PCGS and NGC coins that are submitted to CAC are recorded at the time they are entered into the CAC system.

All PCGS or NGC coins that are submitted to CAC are reviewed for CAC verification whether they have previously been submitted to CAC or not. Occasionally a coin that has previously been rejected for CAC verification is reconsidered by CAC and stickered.

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CRAWTOMATIC,

Thank you so much for taking the time to research this and post your results.

As I am currently submitting coins to CAC, in batches, along the way I have wondered if they would just look up the Verification Number, and then move on if the coin had already been "passed over" by them.

Now I feel a lot better.

You never know, a "sticker" or "no sticker" on a coin that is on the knife edge of stickering just may sticker if it's a warm, sunny, Spring morning.

Hoping for the best.  :foryou:

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