Bidding in a Coin Auction
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January has been an exciting month for me as I was waiting for months for several coins in several different auctions (fortunately on different days).  I told my wife the other day that I felt a big relief that the waiting for those lots has finally passed.  I'm sorry you couldn't get that coin at a price you felt comfortable with but at least the pressure is over -- for now (there is another 62 PL out there).

Edited by jgenn

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physics-fan… you "kept the reign on your horses."

That's admirable!  And look at the excitement you created in your life.

If - Poem by Rudyard Kipling

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you
But make allowance for their doubting too,
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings--nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much,
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!

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Jason, the link didn’t work for me, but I know which coin it is and am very sorry you didn’t win it.

 

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Jason, it was just you and the other bidder.  (that's the way it reads)

This is interesting, the strategy of this particular auction.

The details still missing (I'm not a member of HA.) are the pre-auction strong-arm bid, any delays on the other bidder's bids, and the final hammer.

And lastly, how much time, maximum, are you allowed to wait, to consider things, before a counter bid must be done? (1 minute, 5 minutes, x minutes?)

Is it better to wait as long as possible once your preset amounts have been exceeded? And then strategize that so that you can be relentless by never "going away?"

NGC Price Guide shows it at $6,880 in MS62.  But the coin does "show" well; it has the "look."

Still, it went for very strong money, and there is the BP add on to consider.

Bet the other bidder was "sweating it," too.

High stakes stuff, even considering that your Lot was inexpensive compared to the prior auctions.

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7 minutes ago, USAuPzlBxBob said:

Jason, it was just you and the other bidder.  (that's the way it reads)

This is interesting, the strategy of this particular auction.

The details still missing (I'm not a member of HA.) are the pre-auction strong-arm bid, any delays on the other bidder's bids, and the final hammer.

And lastly, how much time, maximum, are you allowed to wait, to consider things, before a counter bid must be done? (1 minute, 5 minutes, x minutes?)

Is it better to wait as long as possible once your preset amounts have been exceeded? And then strategize that so that you can be relentless by never "going away?"

NGC Price Guide shows it at $6,880 in MS62.  But the coin does "show" well; it has the "look."

Still, it went for very strong money, and there is the BP add on to consider.

Bet the other bidder was "sweating it," too.

High stakes stuff, even considering that your Lot was inexpensive compared to the prior auctions.

The prior prices realized you see are for non-PL MS62 examples and this one was PL. It essentially went for strong non-PL 63 money.

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Sorry for your loss, Physics-fan. It really was a pretty piece of gold, but I'd be willing to bet that there's a better one out there, just for you.

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Try this link instead: https://coins.ha.com/itm/territorial-gold/territorial-and-fractional-gold/-1842-50-g-1-a-bechtler-dollar-27g-21c-plain-edge-ms62-prooflike-ngc-k-24-r3/a/1292-3985.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

2 hours ago, USAuPzlBxBob said:

And lastly, how much time, maximum, are you allowed to wait, to consider things, before a counter bid must be done? (1 minute, 5 minutes, x minutes?)

 

Seconds. They auction 2 or 3 lots a minute, depending on how much action there is on a lot. Once your lot comes up, you have to a plan already made up in your mind, and you have to react quickly. That whole paragraph about the bidding action took about 20 seconds. 

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You've definitely got good taste, because that coin sure is a standout.  I'm starting to think that you should have bid a little bit higher!

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Lost one yesterday as well. Kept my limit within reason, maybe plus a little. Knowing that I did the grown up thing is NOT satisfying in the least, should have let the child out. . 

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After reading these replies, and learning a little more, I'm realizing that unless you're extremely well-heeled… try to avoid looking in the candy store window.

In fact, find a new route of walking to school.  (Glad my participation these days is mostly watching from afar.)

Good thread.  Win or lose.  Good thread.

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IMHO, sometimes the stretch in price is worth ending the search. 

But, YES, I have overpaid and, YES, I have lost a few auctions.

I don't usually care, though, as I am holding for the long term.   

Don't worry...you'll find another (and maybe better) example....this happens more often than not. 

Best of luck to you!!

Edited by Walkerfan

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Interesting writeup I'm sure many have been in your shoes win or lose.  It is said that time heals all wounds so in time you will find another coin to ease the memory of losing on this one. 

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Do you see the ID of the other bidder(s), so that you know how many are involved?  Or is it just, "You have been outbid. Bid again?"

When you drop out of the bidding, and let's say the bids increase from other participants, can you jump back into the fray yet again?

I suppose one of the most painful realities of an auction, is that if it ends just beyond your final bid, you've lost, you know that the other bidder won by just hanging in there for slightly higher than you were willing to go.  That would hurt if you really wanted the item.

 

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12 minutes ago, USAuPzlBxBob said:

Do you see the ID of the other bidder(s), so that you know how many are involved?  Or is it just, "You have been outbid. Bid again?"

When you drop out of the bidding, and let's say the bids increase from other participants, can you jump back into the fray yet again?

I suppose one of the most painful realities of an auction, is that if it ends just beyond your final bid, you've lost, you know that the other bidder won by just hanging in there for slightly higher than you were willing to go.  That would hurt if you really wanted the item.

 

 I’m guessing, that for all Jason knows, even if he’d bid considerably higher, he still might have been outbid. 

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18 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

 I’m guessing, that for all Jason knows, even if he’d bid considerably higher, he still might have been outbid. 

Mark is right.  With Heritage live by proxy, the winner's max bid could have been 20,000 for all he knows.

Edited by Walkerfan

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That would have been quite an addition to the prooflike collection. Sorry you weren't able to score it.

Don't give up hope. As jgenn said, there are a few more prooflike Territorials out there.

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Let me tell you a story.  I had been looking for a 19d walker for many years.  Back around 2010 there was one that I really liked and I wasn't able to secure it.  Seller wanted around 15K for it.  I saved the images all these years.  It was a 63 and I toyed with the idea of buying a 62 of lesser quality and I saw many 63s of lesser quality but I never pulled the trigger on them. When I look at that old image, now, I can see that there's rub on that coin and the strike wasn't as good as I originally thought it was.  In 2017 Summer, some 63s sold in the mid $20,000 range and I was not a player on those, as I got blown out of the water.  Well, last June I purchased the nicest 63 I've ever seen in my life.  It is better than many 64s and I got it for a really good price.  So your patience and diligence will pay off.  It may take many years but it will happen. At least it did for me.  You are younger than me, Jason, so you still have plenty of time.  Peace, brother.  WF.

Edited by Walkerfan

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I don't buy $8500 coins but I have lost more than a few times myself.  Every time I did, I obviously liked the coin but not remotely enough to potentially get "buried" in it.  The coins I collect aren't widely held and getting into a bidding war can put you way over likely value in a hurry, a market value which you won't really even know.

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2 hours ago, World Colonial said:

I don't buy $8500 coins but I have lost more than a few times myself.  Every time I did, I obviously liked the coin but not remotely enough to potentially get "buried" in it.  The coins I collect aren't widely held and getting into a bidding war can put you way over likely value in a hurry, a market value which you won't really even know.

Good point regarding coins or other collectibles that don't have a lot of demand or price history. Now doing 18th century medals as a sideline, bids are an educated guess, often an uneducated guess. Part of the fun tho, and no slabs. 

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3 hours ago, World Colonial said:

I don't buy $8500 coins but I have lost more than a few times myself.  Every time I did, I obviously liked the coin but not remotely enough to potentially get "buried" in it.  The coins I collect aren't widely held and getting into a bidding war can put you way over likely value in a hurry, a market value which you won't really even know.

Yeah, Ottoman works like that.  However, I myself don't really like auctions.  I never have.  I tend to like outright sales.  Just tell me what you want for the coin, and we can make a sale or not.  While I know that my aversion to auctions has cost me some great pieces (an Ottoman 20 Kurush mule with a 1918 obverse die from Sultan Mehmed V Reshat and reverse die of Sultan Mehmed VI Vahideddin comes immediately to mind), I've also managed to secure many very nice coins for my collection through outright sales.  And not just more common issues.....I have some pretty serious late Ottoman keys that I've picked up that way, along with some nice early East German condition rarities.  But, maybe the day will come that I feel differently about auctions.  Who knows?

Edited by Mohawk

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Sorry you lost the coin Jason.  I know how you feel.

I did not have any luck at HA today.  3 coins I bid on, didn't win one.

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29 minutes ago, Mohawk said:

Yeah, Ottoman works like that.  However, I myself don't really like auctions.  I never have.  I tend to like outright sales.  Just tell me what you want for the coin, and we can make a sale or not.  While I know that my aversion to auctions has cost me some great pieces (an Ottoman 20 Kurush mule with a 1918 obverse die from Sultan Mehmed V Reshat and reverse die of Sultan Mehmed VI Vahideddin comes immediately to mind), I've also managed to secure many very nice coins for my collection through outright sales.  And not just more common issues.....I have some pretty serious late Ottoman keys that I've picked up that way, along with some nice early East German condition rarities.  But, maybe the day will come that I feel differently about auctions.  Who knows?

Both times that I got really ran up were in auction settings.  My best deals have always been through private treaty sales or dealers.

Edited by Walkerfan

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20 hours ago, USAuPzlBxBob said:

And lastly, how much time, maximum, are you allowed to wait, to consider things, before a counter bid must be done? (1 minute, 5 minutes, x minutes?)

More like 15 seconds.  They have hundreds of lots to get through in a session.  They aren't going to wait for you to make up your mind.  Typically they will run through 60 to 100 lots an hour.  So at the slow pace that is an average of one lot per minute from the time it opens till it is hammered down.  At the faster pace it is closer to 30 seconds from open to close.

 

10 hours ago, USAuPzlBxBob said:

Do you see the ID of the other bidder(s), so that you know how many are involved?  Or is it just, "You have been outbid. Bid again?"

You don't know the other bidder or how many others are bidding.  Once it closes they will announce the bidder number, or if it is to an internet bidder or the Book.  (The Book is a bid that a bidder submitted before the sale, the auction house bids on their behalf until the floor or internet bid exceed their presale bid.)

 

10 hours ago, USAuPzlBxBob said:

When you drop out of the bidding, and let's say the bids increase from other participants, can you jump back into the fray yet again?

yes

 

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I'm not going to join HA just to log in and maybe see what the hammer price of the coin was.

Anyone want to reveal what it sold for?

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11 minutes ago, USAuPzlBxBob said:

I'm not going to join HA just to log in and maybe see what the hammer price of the coin was.

Anyone want to reveal what it sold for?

$11,400, including the buyer’s premium.

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Do not write so that you can be understood, write so that you cannot be misunderstood. ~ Epictetus.

(A guy on a website I visit has this quote attached to all of his posts.  Genius.)  :wink:

 

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