Do you have any show stoppers
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Do you have any show stoppers for the series at you collect? If so, why - cost, rarity - both?

In my collection, I have several sub-collections. In one of the subs, I have a few show stoppers because of cost and rarity. The main stopper is the 1920 Sydney Mint Sovereign. It sells for around one million. There are four to five examples. it is the most valuable Australian Sovereign coin. 

The 1920 S is rarer than the famed 1819 Sovereign that was minted in London that has 10-12 examples. The 1920 S is believed to have been minted for a special event. One is in the Royal Australian Mint Collection. Another appears to have been minted in 1926 and is listed as a specimen in the Quartermaster catalog. It appears to have been minted from a reverse die that was cleared of residue which protected it during the long sea voyage from England to Australia. 

King George V has some of the most common Soveriegns minted as well as some of the most rare.

Edited by Zebo

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In the only coins I regularly buy now which are Bolivia, Guatemala and Peru pillar minors, most of the coins are "show stoppers" in the sense that few come up for sale.  It still isn't many but I have seen more graded and ungraded in the last few years than previously and it's a combination of two factors.

First, the TPG counts have not increased much at all but more of the few listed have been placed for sale. Second, since early last year, been checking eBay practically every day and found a few lower to average circulated coins that I didn't have before.

There are only a few that are likely absolutely rare per the examples you gave but the survival rates are pitifully low and most examples are in poor to awful condition.  Purportedly, one 1752 Peru 4R is known from the original mintage of 81. 1766 Peru 1/2 real has a recorded mintage of 163200 but wasn't included in Patterson's mostly complete collection and Brad Yonaka's survey identified only one example out of 939 for all four denominations (versus about 5000 from Mexico).  Of the 1/2R, 1R and 2R, approximately 20% were holed.

As a point of comparison, I have reviewed Liberty Seated denomination survival estimates in Coin Facts which I consider the best comparison from US coinage.  Many are scarce or believed to be scarce but I'd say, excluding 8R vs Seated dollars, these three mints I collect are usually scarcer in multiple than even the scarcest date/MM combinations in a one-to-one comparison most of the time.  Also easily scarcer than 1794-1807 comparable US denominations except for outliers such as the 1802 half dime.

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All of the early Walkers run pretty rich in better MS grades but I have not had any problems in acquiring them.

Good old-fashioned LUCK has been on my side, because I have found the right coins, at the right prices. 

The 1921-S in mint state 63 or 64 will require a bit of a stretch from me but I do believe that I will be able to reach it.  

There are only about 175 extant in ALL mint state grades.

The Walker series has tested me, in every way, and it's been one heck of a ride that I wouldn't trade for anything.

 

 

Edited by Walkerfan

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I can't bring myself to pull the trigger on a nice MS 16D to complete my Mercury set. They seem fairly available, which means I just need to write a check. That puts me off as does as the lackluster US coin market. Not really a stopper money-wise, but I hate knowing I would eat $3-$5k in transaction cost in the near term and I'm no YN. My attention has shifted elsewhere for now - to 18th century medals. 

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I have only one that might by some be considered a show stopper.  My 1918-S Lincoln graded NGS MS66BN was at the time I bought it (15 yrs ago) a pop 1 now a pop 2 none graded higher and only 3 in 66RB none in red.  PCGS has only 2 in 66BN none in RB or red, according to coin facts it is considered an R8 in grades MS65 and above.  My coin also has the distinction to be the only MS66 coin to have been CAC approved, however I have no way of knowing if any of the other six coins have been sent in to CAC or not.  So I have a condition rarity coin with only a total of 7 in this grade across all colors and none graded higher (and sole CAC approved), so it is a show stopper for the collector that wants a top pop set.  But not a show stopper for the series as it is much easier to find in lower MS grades.

 

1918-S-Comp.jpg

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On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 10:13 AM, LINCOLNMAN said:

I can't bring myself to pull the trigger on a nice MS 16D to complete my Mercury set. They seem fairly available, which means I just need to write a check. That puts me off as does as the lackluster US coin market. Not really a stopper money-wise, but I hate knowing I would eat $3-$5k in transaction cost in the near term and I'm no YN. My attention has shifted elsewhere for now - to 18th century medals. 

IMO, from a financial aspect, you have made the right decision,  The 16-D dime is not scarce at all and it is one of the most overpriced coins on the planet for its numismatic credentials.  Unlike most US coins, I actually think the higher grade coins (below the highest TPG grade) are better values than the lowest ones.

It's a coin with a high collector preference in one of the most "popular" (as in widely collected) series but concurrently one which I believe has seen its peak and will lose a noticeable proportion of that popularity longer term.  With the internet, there is no reason for (prospective) collectors to choose this series (or any of the other most widely collected US) in the same proportion, just as you have with these medals. 

With the 16-D specifically, I believe the pricing weakness will start with the lowest circulated grades and work its way up.  Its so relatively overpriced, it can lose noticeable proportional value, still retain its current key date status and perception while still remaining one of the most overpriced coins in the world.

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I don't.

I collect within my means which doesn't add up to much after paying the bills.

Still manage to find some nice coins.

My Alabama in AU is pretty nice:

thumbnail2.jpg

 

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An additional short list either from series I have tracked or collected:

The 1931 South Africa Union 3D, florin and half crown which have circulation strike mintages of 66, 381 and 791.  Unlike US and European coinage where the survival rates would be expected to approach (or exceed) 80%, almost none apparently do.  There are a handful of the 3D in the NGC census in low grades but it wouldn't surprise me if one or more are impaired proofs.  I have seen this misattribution numerous times.  I have seen two florin in 20 years and the NGC census includes one in MS-63.  I suspect this coin is a proof though I have only seen an image.  For the half crown, the NGC census and my observations total somewhat less than ten.  For all three, I suspect the Mitchell collection (not graded and still held by the family) probably has all three (in MS) and I am aware from a second hand account of someone else who acquired a mint set back in 1932.  The Bakewell collection (included in the NGC registry) has the half crown but not the others, Remick had none and I have never heard or any other collector where it is public knowledge owning any either.  I suspect a low number do but it can't be many.  My guess is that the 3D is a Judd R7 (4-12), the florin an R6 (13-30) and the half crown either a low R-6 or very high R-5.

Practically all dates in the Chile (mintmark "So") Lion and Castle quarter real 1796-1818 excluding the 1817 (a hoard coin) and the 1818 (occasionally sold).  Many dates from other mints are also very difficult to buy with some likely "show stoppers".

1862 Ecuador Capped Bust 4R.

It's not a series with a high preference but many Bolivia Republic decimals are very hard to buy and a few might qualify.  The 1877 and 1893 Boliviano are two.  Others such as the 1864 2C, 1866 1/5 Boliviano, 1873 20c and 20c from 1901-1904 almost never come up for sale.  Partly it's likely the low value but maybe not always.  The ANS collection has many from this series donated by the Norwebs or donated from others almost a century ago.

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My favorite set has a coin variant with a reported surviving population of 10.  100 minted/90 melted.  The coin is the 1926 Prince Skanderbeg bust 20 FrA of Albania with the fasces emblem next to the R mintmark.  There's a population of 5900 for the coin without the fasces mark.

The coin was designed and minted in Rome for Albania, and I suspect (though have no real basis for it) that the very prominent fasces design that the Rome mint used was not acceptable to the Albanians, so the first coins were taken out and the dies reworked.  I say this because there a contemporary banknote that was documented as withdrawn prior to circulation because the eagle motif was single headed and 'not Albanian' (a double headed eagle).  So, a prominent Italian symbol on the gold coin would likely have been equally unwelcome.  Especially a gold coin featuring the major hero of Albania.

Interestingly, there are supposedly two designs (Zog and Prince Skanderbeg busts) for the denomination in 1926, but despite a reported full mintage I know of no examples of the Zog bust in 1926.  Makes me wonder if the whole mintage of that one was also pulled back and melted as well.  Hard to say and will probably never know.  It's been long enough that if there were any hidden away in an old Italian collection somewhere it might have emerged by now.

In any case, there have been 6 grading events (a 61 and 5x63) for the fasces bearing coin at NGC per the census, and none at PCGS last time I looked.  VERY unusual to see at auction, though in the last couple years IIRC 3 have popped out.  The sole MS-61 has had a starting bid that seems to have precluded it's sale a couple times.  Two of the 63s have now passed hands too out of European auctions.  One to my greedy self which I NEVER thought could happen.  I mean, it was at least 10 years before I even saw one for sale.

1926 Prince Skanderbeg 20 FrA with fasces

Naturally the prong is almost right on top of the defining design element 9_9

So,  a stopper I never thought to own given the low population.  The price was high for my collecting level, though peanuts for some I'm sure.  Yes, there is a collector base, but it's not large!

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Interesting thread and something I have considered a lot over the years whilst trying to put complete sixpence date runs together, and certainly during the search for missing die numbers for the years 1864 to 1879. Having discovered the NGC Registry this has been made even more difficult by now restricting it to graded coins (all my coins were raw up until a few years ago and the vast majority in F/VF although I have submitted the better ones to NGC). I expect that my Victorian set will remain incomplete as high grade 1854, 1863 and 1893 Jubilee Head issues are probably now 'show shoppers', at least from a cost perspective should an example eventually appear for sale, the top sets are definitely something to aspire to.

My solution is that I now collect typesets!

As an example I find the Napoleonic period extremely interesting, a date run of any denomination would be effectively impossible however my typeset, still a challenge, is slowly nearing completion. I hope the search for the remaining coins in good grades, and at reasonable prices, will not prove them to be 'show stoppers' although their value may require liquidation of much more of my collection in the coming years!

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On 11/21/2018 at 7:14 PM, leeg said:

I don't.

I collect within my means which doesn't add up to much after paying the bills.

Still manage to find some nice coins.

My Alabama in AU is pretty nice:

thumbnail2.jpg

 

I struggle with that also, when I feel the need to go in a certain direction with coins or a coin rather, I go without luxury to save money to afford it, however, I go with bare minimal food supplies for myself and skip meals, I cut costs and sell non coin things...like an addict desires something he can't have/afford and then I give it my all...sometimes losing sometimes Winning...it's been a horrible dichotomy throughout my life. As if certain coins are works of art that fill my soul with accomplishment and pride...I think there is a medical term for that? Anyway...I absolutely hold your above coin in high regard, outstanding example which ranks among the few finest ever seen! Aesthetically pleasing and original.

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On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 6:49 AM, Zebo said:

Do you have any show stoppers for the series at you collect? If so, why - cost, rarity - both?

A general thought on your theme.

If a "show stopper" is supposed to have any real distinction, it cannot be based upon the price.  There are plenty of coins (overwhelmingly US) which are either quite common (very common by my standards) or not actually hard to buy that most collectors cannot afford. 

The best examples are all of the most widely collected US "key" dates such as the 1893-S Morgan dollar.  It might be somewhat hard to buy as an MS in a TPG holder but the wait is still unlikely to be that long.  I believe the combined TPG count is between 40 and 50 and PCGS Coin Facts states that a hoard of a few dozen MS were released sometime in the 70's or maybe 80's.

From 20th century to date US coinage, as a date/MM, the only coins I would describe as "show stoppers" are the 1913 LHN, some (maybe most) patterns, and the 1927-D and 1933 DE.  Patterns are "made rare"  or at least "made scarce".  At least according to Coin Facts and the TPG counts, all of the other coins should exist in sufficient supply where anyone with the money should be able to buy it, either on demand or at most a few years.  Example:  The 1933 eagle is one I consider legitimately scarce, but with 37 (apparently) confirmed survivors and its high price tag, I don't see that it will take that long to buy one.  Similar idea with proof gold excluding narrow scarcity such as the very low mintage issues listed in the Red Book which are actually patterns or die varieties.

For 18th and 19th century US coinage, a lot more but still very low proportionately except in some specific quality, "eye appeal" or die variety but not as a date/MM.  Many patterns are rare or at least scarce, but there is nothing unusual about it.  Territorial gold and colonials have many legitimate "show stoppers".

For world coinage, many will be due to the original mintage.  The 1931 South Africa Union 3D, florin and half crown wouldn't be that hard to buy if the mintage was remotely normal, except in grade.  Otherwise, scarcity is  the result of low survival rates due to geographic isolation, lack of local collecting and in a few instances mass melting.  Most of these coins also still almost certainly exist in multiple to what is apparently available due to the much lower price level.  In the absence of reliable information, I try to use common sense added to a better quantified benchmark.  The example of the pillars I used above to Liberty Seated coinage is one.

Edited by World Colonial

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22 hours ago, Numismatic, A.A.S. said:

I struggle with that also, when I feel the need to go in a certain direction with coins or a coin rather, I go without luxury to save money to afford it, however, I go with bare minimal food supplies for myself and skip meals, I cut costs and sell non coin things...like an addict desires something he can't have/afford and then I give it my all...sometimes losing sometimes Winning...it's been a horrible dichotomy throughout my life. As if certain coins are works of art that fill my soul with accomplishment and pride...I think there is a medical term for that? Anyway...I absolutely hold your above coin in high regard, outstanding example which ranks among the few finest ever seen! Aesthetically pleasing and original.

Thank you. Your words are very kind.

Like you, I have "the fever." Coin fever.  It's like every time I'm ready to purchase a coin, something else is more important.

I'm 61 and still pretty healthy. Coins are a hobby, don't let it make you sick or unhappy.

We can only do, what you can do. That means you'll treasure the coins you do buy even more.  :smile:

 

 

Edited by leeg

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2 hours ago, leeg said:

Thank you. Your words are very kind.

Like you, I have "the fever." Coin fever.  It's like every time I'm ready to purchase a coin, something else is more important.

I'm 61 and still pretty healthy. Coins are a hobby, don't let it make you sick or unhappy.

We can only do, what you can do. That means you'll treasure the coins you do buy even more.  :smile:

 

 

I was thinking yesterday after posting that, I'm ready to not feel that way...after reading your reply, I will reflect on the happiness it brings me and try an void the sick and unhappy feeling it's brought also...I feel better after admitting and releasing that Coin Fever I've experienced so many times...Peace

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Show stoppers.....yes.  I have one.  It's this guy:

https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/WCM/CoinView.aspx?PeopleSetCoinID=1919374

I don't really series collect any longer, but I still dig these Ottoman nickel para coins.  And watch that coin fever.....it can be dangerous, but it can also be positive as well.  I used to suffer from it myself and it was pretty devastating at times.  But, I turned it into something positive.  I started selling coins to fund my coin fever, and I've actually gotten pretty good at it.  And, though I rarely suffer from coin fever now, I still enjoy selling coins.  I'm not a big dealer or anything, but the extra money I make from selling coins definitely helps out, especially since I'm not actively teaching any classes right now in order to focus on writing my doctoral dissertation.  A couple weeks ago, the blower motor went out in my car and my coin sales paid for the replacement entirely, and, as someone who lives in NY State in December, I'm much happier with a working heater in my little Volkswagen Beetle than I would be with any coin I would have purchased with the money.  I also make people happy by selling coins and I really enjoy that part of it.  I have things that I've purchased over the years and I can still remember buying them and who I bought them from, so I'm so glad to be part of someone's moment as I phrased it when talking to my fiancee about it a couple of weeks ago.  So, coin fever can be turned into positive things as well.....you just have to decide to own it instead of letting it own you.  That said though, I'm still a collector.  I'm just no longer an addict :)  And, believe me, I was a bad one.  If I can kick it, anyone can!

~Tom

Edited by Mohawk

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