U.S. Coins is on Life Support
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46 posts in this topic

11 minutes ago, WoodenJefferson said:

...Wow, this place used to have a slow pace but as of late, there are tumble weeds rolling down the halls. Spooky

Even topics that are more NGC related seem to be introduced ATS. A tipping point?

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My guess is that one factor is all of the threads about "error" coins. The majority of the coins posted are damaged, imagined-errors or errors that are so minor as to be of little or no consequence. 

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Once again, Mark Feld gets it exactly right.............I hate when "uninformed" people post, what I consider "junk" coins, asking if their damaged coins have any value.  NO!  THEY DON'T!!!!!!!!  Just spend them at the local coin shop, then post the photos of the coins you bought. What a wonderful world that would be. 

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2 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

My guess is that one factor is all of the threads about "error" coins. The majority of the coins posted are damaged, imagined-errors or errors that are so minor as to be of little or no consequence. 

There are a bunch of those posts ATS too, and some people there are getting sick of them also. Non productive, repetitive posts like that do kill interest, but that's not all of it. I saw a big drop off here after NGC stopped taking PCGS U.S. on their registry. The cut over to the new software here on these boards also did not go as smoothly as some hoped.

There is also a lot energy going out of the U.S. coin market because of CAC. A number of veteran collectors, like me, are very unhappy with the pressure from certain segments that say, "only PCGS graded, CAC approved coins are good. Everything else is dreck or second class." It's discouraging when one person has veto power over much of the U.S. coin market. I'm spending more time with my medals and tokens, and I've been collecting British coins and have started to dabble with ancient Roman.

Edited by BillJones
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8 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

My guess is that one factor is all of the threads about "error" coins. The majority of the coins posted are damaged, imagined-errors or errors that are so minor as to be of little or no consequence. 

Certainly a drag on one's time although I ignore most. Doesn't help with the overall atmosphere. Admittedly, I would make a lousy teacher. 

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8 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

My guess is that one factor is all of the threads about "error" coins. The majority of the coins posted are damaged, imagined-errors or errors that are so minor as to be of little or no consequence. 

I emailed NGC to add a forum that is titled "is this an error".  I am no longer posting until something is done.....present occurrence excluded.  

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8 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

My guess is that one factor is all of the threads about "error" coins. The majority of the coins posted are damaged, imagined-errors or errors that are so minor as to be of little or no consequence. 

I think Mark is absolutely right about that.  It gets old weeding through so much of that to post and talk with the members you want to talk with.  And, wow, are some of those people rude!  I mean, they post a coin which is nothing, you tell them that it isn't worth anything and then you're the one whose wrong!  If they have all of the answers already, then why post here and ask questions, you know?  But I agree with what Bill had to say as well.  Collectors are moving out of US coins and into other areas.  I myself am really only active in US coins as a seller anymore, though my departure from collecting US took place years ago.  Lately, I've been chasing the first coins I really fell madly in love with as a child almost 30 years ago, the coins of Canada and Proof Like coins in particular....I have to say I think I'm addicted there.  Also, I think we need to remember the time of year as well......many people who collect in the fall and winter are now outside pursuing swimming, boating, hiking and other outdoor activities which require time and/or hobby funds to pursue.  I have a feeling that's where many collectors are right now.  We'll probably see an uptick in activity again once fall arrives.

As always, just my thoughts.  I could be completely wrong.

~Tom

 

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37 minutes ago, Davids5104 said:

I emailed NGC to add a forum that is titled "is this an error".  I am no longer posting until something is done.....present occurrence excluded.  

This forum might also benefit by combining forums - grading and newbie questions are included in US Coins ATS and can be interesting. I don't often look at the other NGC forums. 

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I am not a member ATS, but I do drop in every now and then, and I have noticed a number of posters there who were once regulars over here. I have long been curious why they left.

Interestingly, at any given time, there are 100-200 guests viewing these forums.

On the subject of all of the "error" posts, I have no problem responding to those who genuinely want to learn. Certainly some are convinced that they know more than those who have been collecting for years, but most are just excited with the prospect of finding something valuable. Should we blame Youtube, Ken Potter, or something/someone else? I remember being a newbie, and I also know what it is like to feel looked down on because I do not collect high end coins. I certainly do not want to look down on or discourage someone new.

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53 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

I am not a member ATS, but I do drop in every now and then, and I have noticed a number of posters there who were once regulars over here. I have long been curious why they left.

Interestingly, at any given time, there are 100-200 guests viewing these forums.

On the subject of all of the "error" posts, I have no problem responding to those who genuinely want to learn. Certainly some are convinced that they know more than those who have been collecting for years, but most are just excited with the prospect of finding something valuable. Should we blame Youtube, Ken Potter, or something/someone else? I remember being a newbie, and I also know what it is like to feel looked down on because I do not collect high end coins. I certainly do not want to look down on or discourage someone new.

I agree with you Bob.  I'm always willing to help a new collector who really wants to learn.....as someone whose professional life is in the field of education, I love teaching. I especially love teaching about coins and our great hobby.  The problem I have is with the posters who post a coin which they are completely convinced that is an error or variety worth big bucks, but then react rudely or flat out attack you when they receive the bad news that they simply have a regular coin, a damaged coin, etc.  And there have been several of those on here as of late.  There are also those that just won't listen to what you say.....an experience I had recently was with two people talking about a 1977-D "Pac-Man Error" Lincoln Cent, which was the result of an Etsy listing of a damaged 1977-D Lincoln Cent that someone was trying to sell for $50,000.....that was some ridiculousness, let me tell you.  As I said, I love to teach, but I do not like being rudely attacked when the information I share is not what this person wanted to hear.  I was a newbie once, too, and I made my share of mistakes but when a more experienced collector or dealer politely educated me on what my mistakes were, I always politely replied to them and thanked them for their time and information.  After all, no one comes into a field and expert and I've always valued education and the people who have imparted education to me in my life in all arenas, not just coins.  But I don't have the time of day for someone who comes to any arena, saying that they need help or education, and then attacks the educator when the original seeker of help or information doesn't hear what they want to hear, even though what they do not want to hear is true and accurate.  And this is just me, but I also get annoyed with these people that clearly want to use coins from their pocket change just to make a quick buck.  I don't like helping people like that, but that's just a personal preference.  I like talking to collectors and aspiring collectors, not someone looking for a get rich quick scheme.  Those things are what I have a problem with, not new collectors who want to learn.

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I definitely have no patience with the obvious scammers - those who post some supposedly amazing rarity, and are hoping to play on the greed of some member to make a quick score with their fakes. When they find out that people on here actually know something about coins, they disappear as quickly as they came, never to be heard from again. Those, I can do without. 

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3 hours ago, Mohawk said:

I agree with you Bob.  I'm always willing to help a new collector who really wants to learn.....as someone whose professional life is in the field of education, I love teaching. I especially love teaching about coins and our great hobby.  The problem I have is with the posters who post a coin which they are completely convinced that is an error or variety worth big bucks, but then react rudely or flat out attack you when they receive the bad news that they simply have a regular coin, a damaged coin, etc.  And there have been several of those on here as of late.  There are also those that just won't listen to what you say.....an experience I had recently was with two people talking about a 1977-D "Pac-Man Error" Lincoln Cent, which was the result of an Etsy listing of a damaged 1977-D Lincoln Cent that someone was trying to sell for $50,000.....that was some ridiculousness, let me tell you.  As I said, I love to teach, but I do not like being rudely attacked when the information I share is not what this person wanted to hear.  I was a newbie once, too, and I made my share of mistakes but when a more experienced collector or dealer politely educated me on what my mistakes were, I always politely replied to them and thanked them for their time and information.  After all, no one comes into a field and expert and I've always valued education and the people who have imparted education to me in my life in all arenas, not just coins.  But I don't have the time of day for someone who comes to any arena, saying that they need help or education, and then attacks the educator when the original seeker of help or information doesn't hear what they want to hear, even though what they do not want to hear is true and accurate.  And this is just me, but I also get annoyed with these people that clearly want to use coins from their pocket change just to make a quick buck.  I don't like helping people like that, but that's just a personal preference.  I like talking to collectors and aspiring collectors, not someone looking for a get rich quick scheme.  Those things are what I have a problem with, not new collectors who want to learn.

Well said. My own annoyance also extends to those who are just plain lazy. Lots of information readily available to anyone who chooses to look, and anyone who can find their way here can readily access that information. 

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The activity has decreased drastically here since I joined in 2006.  I attribute it primarily to the weaker market.  I have also heard the change in the software is a root cause but don't know if it is true.

I don't post on PCGS but do read comments occasionally.  The site is still active but posting activity appears to be much lower than it used to be.

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Things seem pretty active to me ATS. Of course there are some junk posts that some people seem to make just to increase their number of posts. They are looking to get the coveted five star collector designation. There are also those with an ax to grind. Still it looks pretty healthy to me over there.

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I didn't post here for quite a bit but I always checked in and read whenever I got the chance... I don't care about the uninformed masses as I was there once. It's a thing.

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Too bad NGC discontinued the Numisma-Quest forum since that probably not only attracted some visitors but also created interest in the field from the questions that were posted.

 

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Oftentimes, when I browse the forums, I drag the cursor over a topic, it semi-opens-up, and I can read the "First post" without registering a view, and then maybe click "Latest post" to browse the last post.

In this way you can monitor posts, read them, but without ever increasing their view counts.

The net effect appears to be a lack of interest, but maybe this is not the case.

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Participation seemed to decline when the "new" design was delayed, then finally introduced. The overall look and feel is fussy and clumsy, with no option to reduce clutter and unnecessary intrusion. PCGS' revision was much better and seems to have attracted additional participants, possibly due to it's simple interface and easy handling of photos and other details. Lastly, NGC has buried their forums in a sub-menu.

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"There is also a lot energy going out of the U.S. coin market because of CAC. A number of veteran collectors, like me, are very unhappy with the pressure from certain segments that say, "only PCGS graded, CAC approved coins are good. Everything else is dreck or second class." It's discouraging when one person has veto power over much of the U.S. coin market."-------Not sure how CAC is taking a lot of energy out of the US coin market because some collectors are not happy with what others think of their non PCGS/CAC coins. Only discouraging to you when they don't CAC......

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Only discouraging to you when they don't CAC......

No, for me that is not the issue. The last set that I finished, the Classic Head Quarter Eagles in Choice AU to low end Mint State, is very tough to complete with or without the CAC sticker. If I had held out for nothing but CAC approved coins, I probably never would have completed it. Furthermore, a couple of the CAC approved coins that were offered to me were very high priced for what they were and didn’t make the grade.

Then you have those who insist that the only coins that are worthwhile are PCGS graded and CAC approved. After a while it really gets to be very discouraging and takes a lot of the fun out of the hobby. I know that I am not alone because I’ve had correspondence with other long time collectors who feel the same way.

Edited by BillJones
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17 hours ago, BillJones said:

No, for me that is not the issue. The last set that I finished, the Classic Head Quarter Eagles in Choice AU to low end Mint State, is very tough to complete with or without the CAC sticker. If I had held out for nothing but CAC approved coins, I probably never would have completed it. Furthermore, a couple of the CAC approved coins that were offered to me were very high priced for what they were and didn’t make the grade.

Then you have those who insist that the only coins that are worthwhile are PCGS graded and CAC approved. After a while it really gets to be very discouraging and takes a lot of the fun out of the hobby. I know that I am not alone because I’ve had correspondence with other long time collectors who feel the same way.

Like it or hate it, the preference among many buyers (notice I didn't say just collectors) for CAC is part of the financialization of the "hobby".

It is one thing to ignore it or claim it doesn't matter when buying moderately priced coins.  It's another entirely for those who already made a substantial outlay and then this preference reduces the marketability of what they already owned.

As for the decreased activity here, the most likely explanation is the stagnant price level and collectors losing money on their collections.  I'm quite confident that if metal prices explode and take US coin prices with it, there will be plenty of prior contributors returning and new ones joining.

Edited by World Colonial
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On point, Charmy's show report has elicited 45 responses ATS as I write this. Here 3. Members who monitor both forums may avoid redundancy and just read and post on threads of this nature ATS. But still...Charmy probably spends a lot of time uploading her report. With such anemic interest I wonder how much longer she will bother. Hopefully combining forums will help some. 

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2 hours ago, LINCOLNMAN said:

On point, Charmy's show report has elicited 45 responses ATS as I write this. Here 3. Members who monitor both forums may avoid redundancy and just read and post on threads of this nature ATS. But still...Charmy probably spends a lot of time uploading her report. With such anemic interest I wonder how much longer she will bother. Hopefully combining forums will help some. 

I read her updates either here or on PCGS and enjoy them.  However, I don't ever post on that type of thread.

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16 hours ago, LINCOLNMAN said:

But still...Charmy probably spends a lot of time uploading her report

But once she posts it on one, it is just a matter of cut and paste to post it to another.  I enjoy her show reports, but not having a super fast internet connection it's a matter of opening it and then go do something else for ten minutes or so while all the images load (and sometimes they don't all load which means refresh the page and go do something else for another ten minutes) so I try to catch them when they are first posted and never go back again to see the comments.

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Honestly, I agree with Bill Jones. 

Disallowing PCGS coins into their NGC Registry really angered A LOT of people. 

Personally, I am unable to complete a Registry set(s) that I have been working on since 2005. 

I really wish they would reconsider. 

But unlike many I will continue to support NGC....I have always liked them and I still do. 

I wonder how their earnings have been since that decision?

 

 

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