Natural Toning vs. Artificial Toning
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I accidentally posted this under "New Acquisitions" so I hope it doesn't cause any trouble. But I resonantly purchased an 1884 O Morgan Dollar with some beautiful toning. The toning looks natural to me but I thought I would show you all and see what you think If it's natural I think it's an easy MS64 maybe higher but I can't tell from the pics. . I will post the link to the pics. then I will post the pictures (They are Ebay pictures) I hope they are easily seen I purchased this coin a lot cheaper than the eBay listing says. the URL is:   https://www.ebay.com/itm/1884-O-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-Gem-MS-Beautiful-Original-Rainbow-Toning-/110834373693

1884-O-Morgan-Silver-Dollar Original-Rainbow Overse.jpg

1884-O-Morgan-Silver-Dollar Original-Rainbow Reverce.jpg

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The pictures are too washed out for me to tell if the coin is naturally toned or artificial, or if the coin is circulated or MS, let alone MS64. However, my first impression was that this is a cleaned AU with AT.

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The sellers images are too washed out to determine NT vs AT at this point in time. I would suggest you take your own images once you get this coin in hand....the seller has 100% feed back so you know they are not out to deceive on purpose.

You paid MS-65 money for an unknown grade and details. Hope it works out in your favor.

washed out.jpg

washed out_Fotor.jpg

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37 minutes ago, WoodenJefferson said:

The sellers images are too washed out to determine NT vs AT at this point in time. I would suggest you take your own images once you get this coin in hand....the seller has 100% feed back so you know they are not out to deceive on purpose.

You paid MS-65 money for an unknown grade and details. Hope it works out in your favor.

 

I've known this seller for 5 years and he has never intentionally sold me a problem coin. For example I bought a raw 1879 Seated Liberty Dime from him for $635.00 and it came back from NGC as PF64 Cameo another coin I bought raw from him is a 1858 Flying Eagle Cent. I paid $650.00 and it came back from NGC as MS63 Small Letters I was quite pleased. But there are some instances where he has sold me a coin that he did not know was a problem one such coin is a 1835 1/2 Cent ( I forgot what I paid ) it came back from NGC as AU Details Rim Filing so I lost out there. I pretty much trust him but if there is a problem coin it's usually because he can't see it and I know he won't intentionally try to dupe me.

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2 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

Based upon the images provided, I do not think the color is natural.

That's why I brought this to the forum. The colors seem to go around the outer edge toward the center which can be indicative of unnatural toning. I have heard that some people will speed up the toning process with heat and steam but I've never done that and I don't know how that affects a coin. May I ask, is the reason you think the toning is natural because of the toning pattern or something else?

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2 hours ago, Robert1963 said:

That's why I brought this to the forum. The colors seem to go around the outer edge toward the center which can be indicative of unnatural toning. I have heard that some people will speed up the toning process with heat and steam but I've never done that and I don't know how that affects a coin. May I ask, is the reason you think the toning is natural because of the toning pattern or something else?

I do not think the toning is natural. That is due to the colors, as well as their pattern. I wish I could be more specific, but it looks way off to me.

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5 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

I do not think the toning is natural. That is due to the colors, as well as their pattern. I wish I could be more specific, but it looks way off to me.

(thumbsu

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Sometimes people can't take good pictures, but it's been my experience, more often than not, that poor pictures are posted to hide something. Sometimes it can be simple as posting crooked or upside down pictures to pitch a counterfeit. Other times, as in this case the contrast in blown up in the opposite direction, (cloudy) to hide odd color. I don't get photos like this out of my digital camera. I would have to mess with my photo processing software to get something like this.

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I received the coin on Saturday and when in hand it is very dark you can make out the rainbow color but like I said it's very dark but I also noted that, again in hand, that it does appear to be AU there's too much wear on the hair line about her ear and her ear looks a little flat. It's most defiantly not MS65 or 63 if it's mint sate at all it's MS61.  I'll try to get some pictures but I don't know how well they'll turn out but I do my best. For him to sell this is unlike him. I purchased a Flying Eagle cent from him and I sent it to NGC it came back as MS63 Small Letters I paid $650.00 and NGC's price guide list's its value at $1250.00 so I came out ahead. I also purchased a Seated Liberty dime which I paid $635.00 and I also sent it to NGC and it came back as PF63 Cameo NGC's price is $1000.00 and all of the other coins I bought from him where pretty spot on so like I said it's not like him to make this big of a mistake.

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OK, I took a couple of pictures and I hope they're good enough and that you can see more detail.

 

 

P1050137.JPG

P1050138.JPG

Edited by Robert1963

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It is an AU coin for sure, and the color looks to be a bit too sharp to be original. The eagle has a lot of rub on the reverse.

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it could be the result of being in a Whitman for quite a few years, but suspect you would get ART toned if sent in. the purples and greens look odd

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The coin certainly shows wear so it's not uncirculated. Beyond that the colors don't appear that way normally so the color is at least suspect. There are 3 things that are positives however, The seller has an E-Bay presence that doesn't seem to include lots of these so it's unlikely he cooked this up. There is a bit of pull away toning at the date, that's an effect that's hard to duplicate artificially and there's a bit of toning deep in the hair that's different from the toning around it. 

 

I'd say 80 % chance you have a problem coin but there's a tiny chance the pictures are just so bad that we're not seeing everything. 

 

An inspection by someone who knows these things is suggested. 

 

 

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