Unplated 1943 Cents? Not Unprocessed, Originally Unplated
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allmine   

I had a couple of Original Bankwrapped Rolls of 1943 pennies (NYC Transit Board from the FRBNY), which were disintegrating from moth damage. Going through them, I found what I thought was a really bad plating job: all messed up and kind of Blue-ish, like a reprocessed penny (far right coin). That is, until I found a couple of others from the same pair of dies, earlier die states, and in a normal silvery-gray color. The far right coin looks like it was struck when the dies went Terminal (huge Low Spots o/r, etc), and has dishily bright luster. I would have thought, had I not known otherwise, that the far right coin was reprocessed; but it doesn't have those hallmarks and I took it from a pile of what were OBWRolls. Any Ideas? 

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Edited by allmine

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allmine   

Full Disclosure: both coins were blasted with heavy duty oven cleaner, to see if the difference is just toning, or an organic film. Nope to both of those thoughts; the coins left the Mint this way

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RWB   

reprocessed penny (far right coin).

The far right coin looks like it was struck when the dies went Terminal

Which coin is processed and which is the oddity? Your text refers to both of them as "far right."

Also, cannot do anything with color unless you properly white balance your camera using a standard 18% gray card from Kodak.

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allmine   

the thing is, the coin on the right came from an Original Bankwrapped Roll
I had a few with moth damage as seen

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Edited by allmine

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allmine   

scanned 600 dpi
all struck from the same set of dies, latest state on the right

 

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Edited by allmine

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With over 1 billion zinc coated plated planchets struck at 3 different Mints, with Philadelphia striking the most, your bound to have some anomalies. 

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allmine   
3 minutes ago, WoodenJefferson said:

With over 1 billion zinc coated plated planchets struck at 3 different Mints, with Philadelphia striking the most, your bound to have some anomalies. 

I would think, but the planchets are electroplated; did any sneak by the process?

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3 hours ago, allmine said:

I would think, but the planchets are electroplated; did any sneak by the process?

The rolled sheets where plated before being punched out of the strip, that's why the edges rust on 43 steel cents.

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allmine   

here's the thing: the one I think is unZinced has a micro lemon-peelish obverse surface;  the plated later die state does not show that, due to being Zinced I think

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allmine   

never be able to tell that... the Zinc coating is like less than 1% of its mass, so the weight would be negligible
in hand, you could see exactly what I'm talking about, it's different from the other two

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Well, if there is no zinc coating that coin will start to rust on the obverse and reverse faces now that you have taken it out of the wrapper. Wet the coin and leave it to dry on a shelf. If it rusts then there is no zinc coating.

Edited by Six Mile Rick

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ldhair   

I think they are all normal 43 cents. These can tone to have several different looks.

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RWB   

The book Pattern and Experimental Pieces of WW-II describes the methods used to apply zinc to the steel metal. There were multiple methods used and blanks cut from them had slightly different physical characteristics. Also, specifications changed during production.

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Sprinkle a bit of iodine powder on the suspect coin, add a drop of water. If your get a puff of purple fumes, it is coated with zinc. You can't hurt these steel cents anymore because of the oven cleaner, which is a pretty harsh corrosive method to determine condition.

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allmine   
1 hour ago, WoodenJefferson said:

 

Sprinkle a bit of iodine powder on the suspect coin, add a drop of water. If your get a puff of purple fumes, it is coated with zinc. You can't hurt these steel cents anymore because of the oven cleaner, which is a pretty harsh corrosive method to determine condition.

Corrosive? not at all; it's an Organic Stripper (and if you knew exactly how many Oven-Cleanered coins have been TPGed, you'd be VERY surprised). Thanks for the Iodine tip!

Edited by allmine

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RWB   

Uhmmm..."organic" doesn't mean it's not harsh. What product was used?

[There's a bar nearby with such things, but maybe that's a different subject.../]

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Amazon   

@allmine Do you have any before and after photos with using an over cleaner? I've never heard of this. Sounds very interesting.

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allmine   
3 hours ago, Amazon said:

@allmine Do you have any before and after photos with using an over cleaner? I've never heard of this. Sounds very interesting.

I can do that

3 hours ago, RWB said:

Uhmmm..."organic" doesn't mean it's not harsh. What product was used?

[There's a bar nearby with such things, but maybe that's a different subject.../]

I am surprised you've never heard of it, RWB... oh, and I meant that it strips Organic material. I used it to clean customers' Diamond-Ruby-Emerald-Sapphire-Opal etc. Rings. They look like *new* and its quicker than sonic cleaning. Dow yellow-top Heavy Duty Oven Cleaner

Edited by allmine

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allmine   

couldn't wait to get this one: PCGS MS62BN

now it's like tied for FK of the variety: EDS and semi-Prooflike

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Edited by allmine

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allmine   

here is an 1854 N-9 I won on eBay, as an "XF with luster" for 150.00

it's now the Undisputed Finest Known of the Terminal Die State
the dies were lapped just before this was struck... it looks whizzed but isn't

VZM_2.IMG_20161219_231215.jpg

VZM_3.IMG_20161219_231417.jpg

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RWB   

A quick on-line search reveals: The material product data sheet says it contains sodium hydroxide. " Product causes burns to skin and eyes on contact; protect with long, rubber gloves and goggles or safety glasses."

Also, that it was discontinued in 1998.

Either you have a stockpile, or the is misidentification.

Edited by RWB

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allmine   

I buy it all the time; it's used to degrease metal parts, remove gunk from metalwork, porcelain, glass, etc. It removes yuck from jewelry
I'm inured to it so it doesn't bother me

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allmine   
23 hours ago, RWB said:

The book Pattern and Experimental Pieces of WW-II describes the methods used to apply zinc to the steel metal. There were multiple methods used and blanks cut from them had slightly different physical characteristics. Also, specifications changed during production.

I guess, but the one overriding factor is that after Zinc plating, the blanks take on a silvery hue. That's totally absent here

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17 hours ago, allmine said:

I can do that

I am surprised you've never heard of it, RWB... oh, and I meant that it strips Organic material. I used it to clean customers' Diamond-Ruby-Emerald-Sapphire-Opal etc. Rings. They look like *new* and its quicker than sonic cleaning. Dow yellow-top Heavy Duty Oven Cleaner

Dow yellow-top Heavy Duty Oven Cleaner on a 1943 zinc coated coin? This must be a joke, as lye reacts with zinc producing hydrogen gas...that is a chemical reaction.

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RWB   
2 hours ago, allmine said:

I guess, but the one overriding factor is that after Zinc plating, the blanks take on a silvery hue. That's totally absent here

OK. Are the photos you recently posted accurate in color?

There are several chemical reactions that can change the color of zinc, but NGC should examine your piece to get an expert opinion on it. Unplated steel will look like steel -- light gray.

RE: Oven Cleaner

EASY-OFF® Oven Cleaner - Heavy Duty

From the MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET

Composition / Information on Ingredients

Ethanol, 2-(2-butoxyethoxy); 2.5 – 10%

Petroleum gases, liquefied, sweetened; 2.5 – 10%

Sodium hydroxide; 2.5 – 10%

Ethanol, 2-amino-; 1 - 2.5%

“DANGER -- CORROSIVE CONTAINS SODIUM HYDROXIDE (LYE). CAUSES BURNS TO SKIN AND EYES ON CONTACT. HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED. Contents under pressure. Avoid contact with eyes, skin, mucous membranes and clothing. DO NOT ingest. Use only with adequate ventilation. Avoid breathing spray mist. Wear long rubber gloves when using.”

Edited by RWB

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allmine   
9 minutes ago, RWB said:

“DANGER -- CORROSIVE CONTAINS SODIUM HYDROXIDE (LYE). CAUSES BURNS TO SKIN AND EYES ON CONTACT. HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED. Contents under pressure. Avoid contact with eyes, skin, mucous membranes and clothing. DO NOT ingest. Use only with adequate ventilation. Avoid breathing spray mist. Wear long rubber gloves when using.”

Love the Lye!!!

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