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You may still add PCGS coins to your Custom NGC Registry sets.  Thank you.

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What is the reason for not allowing PCGS coins in the Competitive Registry? I collect both. Now my set wont be complete.

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Big Tiger, 

 

Thank you for you inquiry.  As of January 3, 2017, NGC Registry sets no longer accept PCGS coins.  Mark Salzberg, NGC’s chairman, wrote a heartfelt letter to explain the reasons behind this change. You can read the full letter here: Mark Salzberg's Announcement

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This is the first i've heard of Mark's claims of PCGS declining grading standards. That is a pretty strong claims. I'm plan on discussing this dealers at CSNS and contacting numismatics press. I think they should an analysis of the grading standards.

 

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This is a horrible mistake and is forcing us to buy the holder, not the coin.  This was the one area that really put NGC ahead of PCGS to me from a collector's perspective.  Now, they are no better.  I have a top 25 registry set comprised of about 60% PCGS and 40% NGC.    Due to the economics of crossover, the NGC coins have been reholdered to PCGS.  As a result of this, NGC has lost about 20 gem coins to PCGS.  Is this the result Mark wanted?   Maybe not, but I guarantee I'm not the only who's done this.   

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This is a big mistake!  Are we collecting coins or holders?  Now we have the label scam, it's no longer the coin but the SPECIAL labels and the holder that control the price. (Soon Mickey Mouse will be signing labels) To make things worse we pay top dollar for these special labels and they aren't even reflected in the collection manager, I have many John Mercanti signed labels but when entering the cert# they come up as any other coin and the price of the standard brown labels. ie 1994 P PF70 UC Mercanti signed label with a price guide of $1500!  2016 W PF 70UC Mercanti FDOI enter cert# comes up as 2016 W PF70UCFDOI with a price of $95! I couldn't buy these coins for that price anywhere Pre-sales were $129, now you can't find one to buy under $189 if at all

This makes it very hard to justify why I'm buying these SPECIAL holders when it always shows me I'm losing money, buy a coin for $895 only to have NGC tell me it's only worth $375.  You sell the labels and grade the coins PLEASE update your database to reflect the proper labeling and pricing.

Thanks

Edited by KDG710

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I've been an NGC guy for almost 10 years now. One of the main reasons being that PCGS and NGC coins were allowed in the registry. This just seems elitist and foolish. I don't know why Salzberg has taken to openly bashing PCGS lately. He just comes off as petty.

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I'm just a lowly collector, getting coins (that I can afford) that I loved as a kid, nothing special compared to the serious collectors her in the REGISTRY...but it's my thing.

I liked that the NGC registry allowed PCGS coins as well; made my minuscule registry sets a little less minuscule.

Just last week, I finally found a nice (to me) AND affordable (to me, again) 1875-S 20c piece; PCGS graded.  I was really looking forward to adding this coin into my existing sets...

So, thanks a bunch NGC.  Now, instead of saving for next coin purchases, I will be using that money to have PCGS re-grade all of my NGC coins.  I may be a drop in the numismatic ocean, I am still a drop.

J

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I joined NGC 3 days ago just for the fun of starting a Competitive Set in NGC and PCGS coins.  My big mistake was believing the internet that I could put in both NGC and PCGS coins in a set.  I now have to compete against people who have both in their collections.  Do you really think I would PAY to have my coins re-graded to NGC?  You can keep my money for the year, but you will never see another dollar of my money.  This was done for pure greed.  

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On 7/24/2017 at 8:31 PM, The Prince & the Pauper said:

I joined NGC 3 days ago just for the fun of starting a Competitive Set in NGC and PCGS coins.  My big mistake was believing the internet that I could put in both NGC and PCGS coins in a set.  I now have to compete against people who have both in their collections.  Do you really think I would PAY to have my coins re-graded to NGC?  You can keep my money for the year, but you will never see another dollar of my money.  This was done for pure greed.  

Would you characterize the PCGS registry the same way?  Just curious as some people get so incensed over both TPGs having aligned rules, yet the ire is disproportionate.

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21 hours ago, Star City Homer said:

Would you characterize the PCGS registry the same way?  Just curious as some people get so incensed over both TPGs having aligned rules, yet the ire is disproportionate.

The ire is disproportionate because PCGS has always been that way, and that's what we expected. That is the atmosphere at PCGS, and if you liked that sort of thing then you could join their club.

Collectors are angry at NGC because up until a few months ago, they gladly accepted both. That is the reason many people participated in the NGC registry - because they accepted both. The rule change comes across as arbitrary, sudden, and a greedy money-grab. 

Edited by physics-fan3.14

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"PCGS has always been this way."  Yup, but if you collect classic coins, there isn't enough NGC-graded material out there to make registry competition possible.  And, it's not just keys and super-expensive coins, it's pretty much accross the board with any coin even marginally challenging.  For an easy example, take the 1931S FB Mercury dime in mint state, a difficult, but hardly impossible date.  I have NEVER seen an NGC-graded 1931S FB dime in ANY MS grade anywhere ever, and I've collected Mercs since before NGC opened its doors.  There are a few listed in the pop stats, but crack outs and cross-overs render them essentially non-existent.  Many other tough Merc. dates are the pretty much the same---18S, 19S, 23S, etc.  In comparison to some classic sets, the Merc dime set is a snap.  

I have 10 or 12 NGC sets I started well before the NGC-only change in January 2017.  I haven't added a single coin to any of them since, not one.   Several of my sets are "Best in Category" though they are incomplete and will always remain incomplete.  However, they'll stay "Best in Category" forever even though utterly stagnant since it'll be virtually impossible for anyone to find enough NGC coins to over-take me.  In all of my other sets, there has been no movement in any of the other top sets in the past year. They're all zombies, standing but dead.   That's hardly a "registry."  

 

Edited by Kaiser141

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I just found this thread because I heard that NGC would accept PCGS coins in NGC sets.  Not so.  I was looking forward to building an Circulation Typeset.  Now I have to rethink whether I want to continue looking for NGC coins at all.  

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Are some of you guys joking? Seriously. PCGS DOESNT even allow NGC coins in any sets however NGC still allows PCGS coins in the custom registry. Why aren't you outraged at PCGS? Instead you turn it on NGC and threaten to not buy NGC coins at all. What the heck.

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2 hours ago, Mk123 said:

Are some of you guys joking? Seriously. PCGS DOESNT even allow NGC coins in any sets however NGC still allows PCGS coins in the custom registry. Why aren't you outraged at PCGS? Instead you turn it on NGC and threaten to not buy NGC coins at all. What the heck.

Agreed.....NGC is definitely more fair here as you can include PCGS coins in the Custom Sets.  PCGS is the one who started this whole "our coins only" mentality with their Registry.  NGC had good reasons for making the changes they did regarding PCGS coins in the competitive sets, but you guys are still beating them up for doing what PCGS has done all along?  Wow........just wow.

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On 3/21/2017 at 1:55 PM, Ali E. said:

You may still add PCGS coins to your Custom NGC Registry sets.  Thank you.

how, I am new

 

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4 minutes ago, Bobmil14 said:

how, I am new

 

Hello Bobmil14, 

I have sent instructions for Custom Registry sets to your email on file.  Thank you.

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I believe if they are not letting PCGS coins in, them the ones grandfathered in should have a point value of zero. It’s not fair to folks who are new to the registry and have all NGC graded coins and are trying to compete with an inferior product. I added my 1994 silver proof set NGC PF69UCAM set to the registry and am only ranked #43 but yet ALL my coins are graded by “superior” company and the set that is ranked #1 only has 2 coins graded by NGC. 

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On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 4:55 PM, conklescoins said:

I believe if they are not letting PCGS coins in, them the ones grandfathered in should have a point value of zero. It’s not fair to folks who are new to the registry and have all NGC graded coins and are trying to compete with an inferior product. I added my 1994 silver proof set NGC PF69UCAM set to the registry and am only ranked #43 but yet ALL my coins are graded by “superior” company and the set that is ranked #1 only has 2 coins graded by NGC. 

I think it's nice that, for 6 (probably soon to be 7 now) NGC has given NGC best in category and overall best in category awards. I think that rather nicely addresses your complaint.

I've been away from this for a long time. I was unemployed through most of 2016/2017 so I wasn't actively collecting and I was happy enough to just not be selling. So I haven't been at all aware of this change. Fortunately I haven't been buying much lately so it's not going to bite me much.

When NGC chose to exclude PCGS from the world sets a few years ago all the existing PCGS coins were booted.

 

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On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 4:10 AM, Morpheus1967 said:

Couldn't agree more with @Mohawk and @Mk123.  In fact, I would take it one step further.  I have no problem with the PCGS coins being grandfathered in.  The ones that were already in registry sets before the change.  However, if you have PCGS coins in your registry set, I don't think they should count for the awards.  There would be nothing wrong with allowing the coins to remain, but with a zero point value.  Allowing them to still compete for NGC registry awards would be akin to having a taste test for your favorite Pepsi drink and allowing Coke to compete.

The registry calculates ranks with and without PCGS coins in effected sets and you get awards / ribbon icons awarded based on both rankings. So if you're #1 when counting only NGC coins, you'll still get recognized for that, even if you aren't #1 when the PCGS coins are included. If you're winning both ways the system actually gives you 2 awards each year. I've looked at both and they look identical when I look at the certificates.

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On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 3:03 PM, Revenant said:

The registry calculates ranks with and without PCGS coins in effected sets and you get awards / ribbon icons awarded based on both rankings. So if you're #1 when counting only NGC coins, you'll still get recognized for that, even if you aren't #1 when the PCGS coins are included. If you're winning both ways the system actually gives you 2 awards each year. I've looked at both and they look identical when I look at the certificates.

This is a very old thread but I'll add my thoughts for the heck of it.  You are correct Revenant, back before all this went down I was, and still am, in favor of doing the registry awards biased on NGC coins only BUT still allowing PCGS coins in the registry sets just with zero point values.  To me this would have been the correct way to address this, one award for NGC coins to award the brand but still allow the other brand to be displayed for those who want to show a more complete or complete set.  My Lincoln set is a prime example of this, I have one unfilled hole in my registry set which I have a nice pq example of just in a PCGS holder.  I could go thru the expense to cross it over but I just don't play that game so my set will forever look incomplete which is a shame.  And for what its worth I do have skin in the game as several of my sets would be negatively impacted by removing the PCGS coin scores from my sets.

I would also add that I'm somewhat in agreement with what Mark said about the grading standard at PCGS, its been my feeling that for many years PCGS has fallen in love with luster and color and has been far to forgiving of surface marks and marginal strikes.  But grade opinions are a constantly moving target and I suppose that until a true computer grading system is developed the war over grading will continue.

Edited by Coinbuf

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I agree with Coinbuf both about resurrecting an old thread but more about allowing PCGS coins but not counting them towards points.

At the same time I have a dealer who sent a bunch of Morgans to NGC and was complaining that they all came back one grade lower than expected.  MS 64 instead of 65 etc.  He had been using PCGS and sent these to NGC.  I looked at them and agree with the NGC grading, of course I am looking at them as a buyer and not a seller and that makes a difference.

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I been out for awhile I’m back ... I see it fair is fair ... for long time PCGS did not accept any NGC coin in registry , it was forcing collectors to even buy PCGS or buy NGC coins (crack’em out) send them into PCGS to get them graded and entered into registry .... for years PCGS and it’s cult of followers been badmouthing NGC coins left to right saying grading standard lousy or NGC coins should be sold 10-20% less than PCGS  ... I never understood why NGC bent over backwards to allow PCGS coins to be entered into registry to begin with ... 

 

so now NGC only accepts their own coins ! I applaud that , that’s how they can get collectors to send in coins for grading just like PCGS did with their registry ... in the end I only see fair is fair ! I buy the coin , not the plastic .

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A good percentage of the commentary on this post is people with almost no posts.  They are likely secondary accounts being used to argue the merits of NGCs decisions.  It is their registry to function how they choose.  It is up to us to decide if we choose to use it.  Being offended is fine or disappointed but given the opportunity to include them in the custom registry set is a reasonable compromise.  

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That agrees with what my dealer friend was saying that NGC is grading tougher

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