• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Anyone else having trouble finding NGC coins

Started by erwindoc,

48 posts in this topic

coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

Like/agree with it or not, eye-appeal is part of a coin's grade. And toning can add to a coin's eye appeal.

 
 
 
 
 
 

I can see eye appeal making a bit of a difference and maybe pushing over a borderline coin to the next grading integer or perhaps to a plus.  I don't understand the 2 or 3 point color bumps at all.  At that point, the graders are grading the color and ignoring the luster, strike, and surfaces.  I don't think eye appeal should swallow all of the other grading factors to the point of being meaningless.

Ignore the image below.  Once you attach an image, apparently the stupid software won't let you remove it.

 

64comb_zpsd1c291c7.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, coinman_23885 said:

I can see eye appeal making a bit of a difference and maybe pushing over a borderline coin to the next grading integer or perhaps to a plus.  I don't understand the 2 or 3 point color bumps at all.  At that point, the graders are grading the color and ignoring the luster, strike, and surfaces.  I don't think eye appeal should swallow all of the other grading factors to the point of being meaningless.

Ignore the image below.  Once you attach an image, apparently the stupid software won't let you remove it.

 

64comb_zpsd1c291c7.jpg

I agree. Except for the part about ignoring the image -that coin is gorgeous!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TonerGuy

TonerGuy

Posted
Posted

Coinman I am curious as to what the Morgan grades... Im not familiar with Morgans but if I had to take a stab I would say its an MS62 coin.

What was it graded by PCGS ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, TonerGuy said:

Coinman I am curious as to what the Morgan grades... Im not familiar with Morgans but if I had to take a stab I would say its an MS62 coin.

What was it graded by PCGS ?

3

I agree with you 100%.  PCGS called this MS64.  My personal grade is MS62.  The marks are definitely there in hand (not all toned over), but the coin has nice luster that makes the colors pop.   Given the relative small difference in value between MS62 or so and MS64, it isn't the most egregious color bump I have seen, but I think it looks silly in an MS64 holder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted

As for my fixation with PCGS color bumping, it sticks out in my mind because I was burned twice last year by it and left money on the table.  One was a Washington quarter that was in a NGC MS66* CAC holder that should have never, ever upgraded IMHO.  There were enough marks that I was actually a little surprised that it stickered.   PCGS color bumped it to MS67.  I sold the coin for about $1300 in the NGC CAC holder, it sold for $3k+ at Heritage in the PCGS holder.   I'm usually good about determining upgrade candidates.  I still kick myself for that one.  At this point, I will never sell a monster toned coin holder without shopping it around the services for a fresh look anymore.  As much as I hate the PCGS only mentality, when in Rome...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Soder47

Soder47

Posted
Posted

 You know nutty as it may be I've seen people pay for a raw toned Coin more than the same coin in top spot grade slab. It truly is a buyers market. I myself have overpaid on a coin I liked due to something about it  that appeals to me. At the same time that thing that appeals to me may turn another away.  I'm just glad that I don't have the fetish for toned coins. No I'm not saying that there are certain ones out there  that I don't think are awesome and well worth the added price to have in your collection. Especially considering  how it may be the only one with those characteristics in that series or any other.  On a sidenote really appreciate everyone's open-mindedness and thoughtful sharing . This is a fantastic forum for brainstorming with  knowledgeable respect for people. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TonerGuy

TonerGuy

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, coinman_23885 said:

I agree with you 100%.  PCGS called this MS64.  My personal grade is MS62.  The marks are definitely there in hand (not all toned over), but the coin has nice luster that makes the colors pop.   Given the relative small difference in value between MS62 or so and MS64, it isn't the most egregious color bump I have seen, but I think it looks silly in an MS64 holder.

Wow I was going to say they graded it MS63 but to bump that coin to an MS64 is a bit egregious IMHO, no matter what the $$ difference is between a 62 and 64. A toning enthusiast might care enough that about the numerical grade to keep them from buying it. It may make a difference is several hundred dollars in price though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TonerGuy said:

Wow I was going to say they graded it MS63 but to bump that coin to an MS64 is a bit egregious IMHO, no matter what the $$ difference is between a 62 and 64. A toning enthusiast might care enough that about the numerical grade to keep them from buying it. It may make a difference is several hundred dollars in price though.

 

I don't like color bumping much myself.   Fortunately, I was able to find someone else like me who liked the color and didn't care about the plastic when I sold it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, coinman_23885 said:

I don't like color bumping much myself.   Fortunately, I was able to find someone else like me who liked the color and didn't care about the plastic when I sold it.

You do know that the coin ended up in a 66 holder, right?

 

 

:wink:

 

:devil:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted
On 3/8/2017 at 7:10 AM, MarkFeld said:

You do know that the coin ended up in a 66 holder, right?

 

 

:wink:

 

:devil:

 

:roflmao:  Given my numismatic luck last year, nothing would surprise me anymore!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
USAuPzlBxBob

USAuPzlBxBob

Posted
Posted
On 3/7/2017 at 4:28 PM, coinman_23885 said:

64comb_zpsd1c291c7.jpg

The coin is so "drop dead gorgeous" that once acquired, and then not having the sense to keep it forever, makes me wonder:  Are "toners" like these a dime a dozen in the marketplace?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, USAuPzlBxBob said:

The coin is so "drop dead gorgeous" that once acquired, and then not having the sense to keep it forever, makes me wonder:  Are "toners" like these a dime a dozen in the marketplace?

 
 
 
1

Thanks!  I would estimate that the most vibrant/attractive high quality "monster" pieces probably make up 1-2% of the total population.  Of course, this is all subjective, and you could probably poll a 100 toned coin collectors and have vastly differing definitions of "monster" so take that with lots of grain of salt.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mac 2

mac 2

Posted
Posted

So here is the way I see it. NGC made a smart decision to restrict PCGS coins from their registry. If you believe [as I do] that PCGS is loose on their grading standards,then that will stop all the cross-over pirates who are only interested in a buck, and not the hobby. Second , PCGS lost a lot of potential customers[NGC registry owners] of their coins due to the restriction, unless you want to start up a PCGS registry set. I think that is why you see more PCGS coins on the market, and to a lesser extent in the future, you will see parity between the two companies, and a possible drop in PCGS values. For all the complainers, NGC and PCGS are now on a level playing field registry set-wise. Smart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, mac 2 said:

So here is the way I see it. NGC made a smart decision to restrict PCGS coins from their registry. If you believe [as I do] that PCGS is loose on their grading standards,then that will stop all the cross-over pirates who are only interested in a buck, and not the hobby.

2

When you sell your coins do you care more about making a statement in favor of your preferred brand of plastic or return on your investment? I have a hard time believing that it would not be the latter.  Also, the new changes to the registry will not deter crossovers. PCGS will return the NGC labels if the coin crosses.  Simply use the old cert number, and voila, you can add it to a NGC registry set.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mac 2

mac 2

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, mac 2 said:

So here is the way I see it. NGC made a smart decision to restrict PCGS coins from their registry. If you believe [as I do] that PCGS is loose on their grading standards,then that will stop all the cross-over pirates who are only interested in a buck, and not the hobby. Second , PCGS lost a lot of potential customers[NGC registry owners] of their coins due to the restriction, unless you want to start up a PCGS registry set. I think that is why you see more PCGS coins on the market, and to a lesser extent in the future, you will see parity between the two companies, and a possible drop in PCGS values. For all the complainers, NGC and PCGS are now on a level playing field registry set-wise. Smart.

 

21 hours ago, coinman_23885 said:

When you sell your coins do you care more about making a statement in favor of your preferred brand of plastic or return on your investment? I have a hard time believing that it would not be the latter.  Also, the new changes to the registry will not deter crossovers. PCGS will return the NGC labels if the coin crosses.  Simply use the old cert number, and voila, you can add it to a NGC registry set.  

Everyone who collects likes to think that their "investment" might be worth more in the future, but that's not why I got into the hobby. NGC or PCGS, coins are a long -term "investment" at best. As far as cross-overs  why not use NGC for a re-grade for an NGC coin? And by the way, if/ when you sell your collection are you going to include all old NGC cert numbers with crossed-over PCGS coins? And if the old NGC cert number is let's  say a 65, and the cross-over is a 65+, which way do you think the prospective buyer of your coins is going to jump? Those old NGC cert numbers will be out in tomorrow's trash. That's the reason I'm in favor of NGC"S decision .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

Link to comment
Share on other sites
coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, mac 2 said:

So here is the way I see it. NGC made a smart decision to restrict PCGS coins from their registry. If you believe [as I do] that PCGS is loose on their grading standards,then that will stop all the cross-over pirates who are only interested in a buck, and not the hobby. Second , PCGS lost a lot of potential customers[NGC registry owners] of their coins due to the restriction, unless you want to start up a PCGS registry set. I think that is why you see more PCGS coins on the market, and to a lesser extent in the future, you will see parity between the two companies, and a possible drop in PCGS values. For all the complainers, NGC and PCGS are now on a level playing field registry set-wise. Smart.

 
 
 
 
 
4

 

20 minutes ago, mac 2 said:

 

Everyone who collects likes to think that their "investment" might be worth more in the future, but that's not why I got into the hobby. NGC or PCGS, coins are a long -term "investment" at best. As far as cross-overs  why not use NGC for a re-grade for an NGC coin? And by the way, if/ when you sell your collection are you going to include all old NGC cert numbers with crossed-over PCGS coins? And if the old NGC cert number is let's  say a 65, and the cross-over is a 65+, which way do you think the prospective buyer of your coins is going to jump? Those old NGC cert numbers will be out in tomorrow's trash. That's the reason I'm in favor of NGC"S decision.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

 
 
1
 
 
 

In your first post, you proclaim that those that cross over coins to PCGS frequently are "pirates" and that you are a purist who only cares about the hobby/coins rather than the monetary considerations.  If you are a purist and care about the coin and the hobby, why does the plastic matter to you at all?  Why are you pro-NGC or pro-any TPG?  Why not pro-ANACS or pro-ICG? Why care about registries at all?  Registries are nothing more than marketing tools by TPGs to (1) encourage brand loyalty and (2) artificially increase demand of their product to the detriment of collectors who are taught/trained to focus on labels and plastic rather than the coin.  It also creates artificial condition rarity for common coins.

As for me personally, when buying for my collection, I'll buy in any TPG holder or even raw if I like it and the price is right.  When it comes time to sell, however, my concern is about return on investment.  I will juggle plastic, make CAC submissions, and include any additional information or TPG inserts to the extent that it works to my advantage.  That doesn't make me a pirate. To not use every legal/ethical marketing strategy to increase return seems foolish IMHO.  

Also, I think many collectors were originally attracted to the NGC registry because of the brand exclusivity of the PCGS registry.  NGC had previously publicly advocated buying the COIN and not the holder.  NGC seems to have abandoned those values and alienated a good chunk of its customer base.  I don't think that is a smart business decision.  Of course, NGC can do whatever it wishes, but I think recent developments will not help NGC's future prospects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Go to topic listing