Zoins Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Has NGC ever considered a high quality, out-of-the-slab photography service similar to TrueView? It seems like it would be an easy value add to provide given the number of excellent coin photographers that are available and used by some coin dealers. It seems like this would be useful for collectors in the age of prong holders. It could also provide some marketing for NGC services by having the NGC logo on high quality photographs. For myself, NGC does a great job of slabbing a lot of exonumia not covered by others and it would be great to have a TrueView-like service for these. Link to post Share on other sites
nk1nk Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 They do offer a photo service and in my opinion is far superior to true views. Check out the pictures on NGC' Instagram to see the quality I'm talking about. So much better than true views! http://instagram.com/ngccoins Link to post Share on other sites
Nutmeg Coin Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I've never tried it; everything NGC does is faster than the main alternative service. Link to post Share on other sites
Conder101 Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) Do a search on the website for Photoproofs. Actually it looks like the closest thing they have to the PCGS Truview is their Photovision Edited January 21, 2017 by Conder101 Link to post Share on other sites
Zoins Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 Good to know, but it seems like the service doesn't provide image files like TrueView. Photo Vision provides images embedded in a PDF which is... interesting. It would be nice to have individual images at different sizes like ATS does. Also, it seems like the service could use some more promotion: * Image searches return a lot of TrueViews but no Photo Vision photos other than the one posted. This is likely a consequence of not providing images, but PDFs. * Photo Vision should be added to Cert Verification Page. The posted example above doesn't show the Photo Vision image: NGC 3317587-003. ATS will show all images they have. The following would seem to help the service: * Provide image files (instead of or in addition to PDF) * Provide image hosting with various sizes including Max size like TrueView * Include on Cert Verification page * Support image search on search engines Link to post Share on other sites
messydesk Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Why on earth would NGC take photos of the coins after they're in the slabs when they have the luxury of shooting them raw? They give up they only advantage they have over other photographers. Link to post Share on other sites
Zoins Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 Why on earth would NGC take photos of the coins after they're in the slabs when they have the luxury of shooting them raw? They give up they only advantage they have over other photographers. You're right! Photos also need to be taken out of the slab as mentioned above. I just assumed they were in my post but it seems to not be the case. From a photography perspective, I think two of the most important things NGC can do is: * Offer a TrueView like photography service, per the above. * Offer clear gaskets (which is now offered for exonumia on request). NGC currently slabs many of the best coins, including world coins and exonumia. Those should have top flight photography services. Some coins can already be had with TrueViews, but many exonumia are not yet slabbed by ATS (and may never be?). Providing such a service integrated into Cert Verification would be a great service. Link to post Share on other sites
Nutmeg Coin Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Though I don't care for the prong holders much as others have mentioned, what is the big advantage with the raw coin photography? And I can see how it would be a lot more work. Coin comes out of the grading room into quality control and it is a lot more work to separate individual coins for photography raw than earmarking the ones for that after the slab room. PCGS is much slower with their true view service which can easily add days to grading etc.. Link to post Share on other sites
Zoins Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 Though I don't care for the prong holders much as others have mentioned, what is the big advantage with the raw coin photography? And I can see how it would be a lot more work. Coin comes out of the grading room into quality control and it is a lot more work to separate individual coins for photography raw than earmarking the ones for that after the slab room. PCGS is much slower with their true view service which can easily add days to grading etc.. In addition to being being able to shoot without prongs, raw coin photography allows light to hit the coin directly which makes photograph better, especially at the super high resolutions used by TrueView. As for time, with great coins, the extra work is worthwhile. Link to post Share on other sites
messydesk Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Though I don't care for the prong holders much as others have mentioned, what is the big advantage with the raw coin photography? And I can see how it would be a lot more work. Coin comes out of the grading room into quality control and it is a lot more work to separate individual coins for photography raw than earmarking the ones for that after the slab room. PCGS is much slower with their true view service which can easily add days to grading etc.. The advantage of not having prongs or plastic in the way are huge when it comes to getting a clear picture and lighting the coin exactly the way you want. The only disadvantage of photographing a coin raw is in handling it. Link to post Share on other sites
physics-fan3.14 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Though I don't care for the prong holders much as others have mentioned, what is the big advantage with the raw coin photography? The plastic of a slab has several disadvantages. First, it isn't perfectly clear and smooth (even a brand new slab), so any imperfections in the plastic will distort the image. Second, the plastic tends to reflect and refract light. Removing that plastic allows direct light on the coin without interference. Third, and this would be less problematic with an absolutely brand new slab that had never been handled, hobbyist photographers have to deal with scratches on the slab. Many scratches will be visible in a picture without care and precision on the part of the photographer. And, those stupid prongs always get in the way. Link to post Share on other sites
Keigwin Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 messydesk and zoins are right. Shooting through plastic isn't as damning as many think. But when you don't have to work around plastic lighting can be ideal. Furthermore, when it comes to colorful proofs you can use axial lighting on raw coins to get perfectly vertical lighting and outstanding color. Lance. Link to post Share on other sites
brg5658 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Furthermore, when it comes to colorful proofs you can use axial lighting on raw coins to get perfectly vertical lighting and outstanding color. Lance. PCGS isn't using axial lighting on colorful proofs. Their throughput is far too high for that kind of nonsense. And, if by "outstanding color" you mean cartoonish blown out images. One of the biggest wastes of time in coin photography is axial lighting. Followed closely by using a light box/tent. I don't get what people like so much about "TrueView" images. I find them consistently non-representative of reality. Seems they should be called "WishfulView" most of the time. Link to post Share on other sites
nk1nk Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Furthermore, when it comes to colorful proofs you can use axial lighting on raw coins to get perfectly vertical lighting and outstanding color. Lance. PCGS isn't using axial lighting on colorful proofs. Their throughput is far too high for that kind of nonsense. And, if by "outstanding color" you mean cartoonish blown out images. One of the biggest wastes of time in coin photography is axial lighting. Followed closely by using a light box/tent. I don't get what people like so much about "TrueView" images. I find them consistently non-representative of reality. Seems they should be called "WishfulView" most of the time. So much truth here! Link to post Share on other sites
Keigwin Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I didn't say PCGS uses axial lighting. I merely said it is an option not available when shooting through plastic. The question was "what is the big advantage with raw coin photography?". True Views are sometimes unrealistic, I agree. Often they are excellent. Lance. Link to post Share on other sites
coinman_23885 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Though I don't care for the prong holders much as others have mentioned, what is the big advantage with the raw coin photography? The plastic of a slab has several disadvantages. First, it isn't perfectly clear and smooth (even a brand new slab), so any imperfections in the plastic will distort the image. Second, the plastic tends to reflect and refract light. Removing that plastic allows direct light on the coin without interference. Third, and this would be less problematic with an absolutely brand new slab that had never been handled, hobbyist photographers have to deal with scratches on the slab. Many scratches will be visible in a picture without care and precision on the part of the photographer. And, those stupid prongs always get in the way. +1 Link to post Share on other sites
coinman_23885 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Furthermore, when it comes to colorful proofs you can use axial lighting on raw coins to get perfectly vertical lighting and outstanding color. Lance. PCGS isn't using axial lighting on colorful proofs. Their throughput is far too high for that kind of nonsense. And, if by "outstanding color" you mean cartoonish blown out images. One of the biggest wastes of time in coin photography is axial lighting. Followed closely by using a light box/tent. I don't get what people like so much about "TrueView" images. I find them consistently non-representative of reality. Seems they should be called "WishfulView" most of the time. I agree. With that said there is enough of a following, and I have had few collectors admit that they were willing to pay a little extra for some toned coins because the pieces were already TrueViewed. For that reason, I think they are worth the extra $5 per coin when submitting. IMHO, NGC would be wise to start its own version. I have NGC proof cameo coinage that does not photograph very well through plastic, and I would use the service. I am sure that there are many other collectors feel the same way. Link to post Share on other sites
physics-fan3.14 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I agree. With that said there is enough of a following, and I have had few collectors admit that they were willing to pay a little extra for some toned coins because the pieces were already TrueViewed. This is an interesting point. I've heard some people say this as well. I've heard collectors say they won't buy a slabbed coin unless its been well photographed prior to slabbing. Link to post Share on other sites
Nutmeg Coin Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I wish the top numismatic photographers had some Maguire's scratch x to clean up slabs before imaging, it just takes 30 seconds, a dab and a poly cloth to clean up slabs. Link to post Share on other sites
physics-fan3.14 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I wish the top numismatic photographers had some Maguire's scratch x to clean up slabs before imaging, it just takes 30 seconds, a dab and a poly cloth to clean up slabs. Many of the top photographers do apply a scratch remover before taking photos. I don't, but I also don't take pictures for anyone besides myself. Link to post Share on other sites
messydesk Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I wish the top numismatic photographers had some Maguire's scratch x to clean up slabs before imaging, it just takes 30 seconds, a dab and a poly cloth to clean up slabs. In my gear I take to shows is a bottle of PlastX, a rag, and a little dropper bottle of oil. Slabs that need it get polished with PlastX. Some slabs, whether I polish them or not, also get a drop of oil smeared over their surfaces. This tends to work best on freshly polished slabs. If I can get a good picture using oil and not polishing the slab I'll do this. If I were to spend 30 seconds per slab on prep (this feels low), a box of 20 means I'm inhaling PlastX for 10 solid minutes rather than taking photos. Link to post Share on other sites
Zoins Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Hopefully NGC is listening to this thread. I do think this slab will help high quality coins and exonumia in NGC slabs. Link to post Share on other sites
coinman_23885 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I wish the top numismatic photographers had some Maguire's scratch x to clean up slabs before imaging, it just takes 30 seconds, a dab and a poly cloth to clean up slabs. The coin's owner should do that before sending the coins off. Link to post Share on other sites
Nutmeg Coin Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I wish the top numismatic photographers had some Maguire's scratch x to clean up slabs before imaging, it just takes 30 seconds, a dab and a poly cloth to clean up slabs. The coin's owner should do that before sending the coins off. Considering how often I see the problem of top photography with defects on the holder it could either be addressed by the customer or the photographer, but the photographer should have the scratch x product handy as I'm sure the top auction companies do; to photograph holders with easily smoothed over scratches on holders makes no sense. Even a quick polish with Maguire's less than 30 seconds can make the problem virtually unnoticeable. Link to post Share on other sites
messydesk Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Considering how often I see the problem of top photography with defects on the holder it could either be addressed by the customer or the photographer, but the photographer should have the scratch x product handy as I'm sure the top auction companies do; to photograph holders with easily smoothed over scratches on holders makes no sense. Even a quick polish with Maguire's less than 30 seconds can make the problem virtually unnoticeable. The big auction companies do nothing to their slabs before photographing them. Their assembly line approach doesn't permit it. There are photos of big bucks coins in trashed holders all over Heritage and Stacks. Link to post Share on other sites
