NGC graded coins ONLY in Registry Sets (US and World)
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Having said that, NGC should run some $5 cross-over specials to help reduce the cost of aligning to their NGC-only Registry vision for those who want to stay.

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When this happened to World Coins in 2012, I moved my entire collection to PCGS and haven't looked back since.

 

What was the motivation for doing so? Was your collection a greater percentage of PCGS coins, or was it an economic based decision because of perceived increased value in the market, or just a protest against change, in that a free stuff registry model disappeared, i.e. a competitor decided to not support another competitor? Does PCGS allow NGC in their world coin registry?

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Having said that, NGC should run some $5 cross-over specials to help reduce the cost of aligning to their NGC-only Registry vision for those who want to stay.

 

I don't think that would be an unreasonable approach and makes some business sense. But, since you have not personally looked back after departing, would this change your mind?

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If NGC would boot all grandfathered PCGS coins from their Registries, I might seriously consider starting an NGC Registry set.

 

Somewhat looking forward to that day. (All of my coins have been crossed-over to NGC, so…)

 

To each, his own.

 

:popcorn:

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When this happened to World Coins in 2012, I moved my entire collection to PCGS and haven't looked back since.

 

What was the motivation for doing so? Was your collection a greater percentage of PCGS coins, or was it an economic based decision because of perceived increased value in the market, or just a protest against change, in that a free stuff registry model disappeared, i.e. a competitor decided to not support another competitor? Does PCGS allow NGC in their world coin registry?

 

I had about 50% of my collection in PCGS plastic at the time of the announcement and had to make a decision whether I would stay with NGC or move to PCGS. The reason I decided to go with PCGS is due to being a big believer in customer experience as a differentiator between service providers. The way NGC approached the move and the overall lack of communication / acknowledgement of the additional pains their existing customers had to go through with regards to their collection choices (and associated financial impact) made me feel like NGC didn't really care about what I thought or felt as a consumer of their services. It was an unpleasant experience, especially since I spent my own time and helped initially craft a number of Colonial Mexico registry sets.

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I agree with you. I think there are more PCGS collectors that are brand loyal than NGC collectors. I may very well be wrong, but it will be interesting to see. I predict that this will hurt NGC's bottom line, and given some of the posts from people here, it may cause many of its most loyal customers to defect.

 

I don't participate in the registry and would not know how to begin.

 

I am interested, though, on some of the focus points about the issue.

 

If registry participants move to PCGS because of the apparent resale value, then the focus is economic gain, is it not? If it was not economic gain, what would be so bad about participating in both registries? Would that not be just as enjoyable and maybe even more challenging?

 

My guess is that most of them are annoyed with using two separate sets of software, both of which may inaccurately portray their coin collections. It is like using two software programs on your personal computer to catalog/inventory your collection. Most collectors would be annoyed by the prospects of buying duplicates (a PCGS and NGC coin) to participate in both. Having gaps would seem to alienate the collector (fill the hole in the "album") mindset of many collectors.

 

I can understand that NGC offered a collector advantage because it accepted PCGS and PCGS did not accept NGC, so it was a convenience of sorts. If NGC had mimicked PCGS, how many of the collectors that utilize NGC would have stayed brand loyal to NGC, and vice versa, or would they have stayed with PCGS because of the perceived economic gain?

 

I don't think I can answer your questions other than with more questions. Would PCGS have as large of a perceived premium if NGC had aggressively marketed its coins and brand loyalty (including an NGC only registry) early on like PCGS did? I think much of the PCGS premium (especially on very high end coins, AU58s, and even culls because of quirky everyman/lowball sets) is driven by the PCGS registry. As such, I don't know whether PCGS would have greater brand loyalty in those circumstances and what the effects of an early NGC-only registry would have had.

 

I am not certain NGC will be hurt via the bottom line. What is the cost to NGC of running the registry? I also think there are many more modern and world collectors than generally assumed, and the younger generation is going to go where they are most welcome. Whether that is NGC or PCGS remains to be seen. PCGS has had a free ride in the registry at the expense of NGC. As a business, NGC is no more responsible to increasing the profit center of PCGS than PCGS is responsible for same toward NGC. I do think, based on many shows I have attended and participated in, that the world collecting community is quite prevalent, and younger collectors are very astute at "discovering" the value and fun of collecting world and modern.

 

I hope you are right. People are upset with NGC, but PCGS has been far more abusive to collectors in my opinion. It arbitrarily banned customers with valid and respectful dissents, its inconsistency and grade inflation are creating market chaos (and with the exception of short periods of time, I think PCGS is generally more inconsistent), it has weakened its guarantee, and has even publicly refused to honor its guarantee at times claiming that coins overgraded by 3 or more points are presumed mechanical errors that are excepted from the guarantee. What PCGS has done is far worse than NGC, and those protesting NGC could help PCGS monopolize the market if the new strategy fails.

 

At best, I think NGC's decision alienates collectors. I think PCGS's decisions have harmed collectors and the hobby. There is a big difference between alienation and harm/abuse.

Edited by coinman_23885

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58 was one of the more brilliant marketing new deals since Roosevelt. Culls were and are silly, imho.

 

If people are annoyed because of a slight inconvenience with 2 sets of software, I would not want to think what would happen if the power was out more than an hour. Everybody is different, or course, but it seems like such a small inconvenience to base a decision to abandon one registry over another. I understand the gap issue, but the person would still have gaps, I would think.Why not just re-grade in a new holder or crossover or whatever method? If the person is sure the coin is the technical grade it should be, there would not be a problem crossing over, would there? Or in the alternative, sell to the persosn using the one type of registry and purchase what they need for the registry they decide to use.

 

I am certain PCGS and to some degree NGC benefit from market chaos. One of the time honored market ploys for profit is creating chaos in some manner with the product being marketed. It is almost a crowd funding in reverse method. Airlines are especially adept at this business method and are constantly creating chaos to improve the cash basket. This should come as no surprise to anyone involved in collecting.

 

As to the guarantee, there is criticism to be had across the board. There was an interesting discussion on these boards about just that. The only guarantee is there is no absolute "guaranty".

 

I understand the reasons you are positing, but at the end of the day, the only constant I detect in the decisions by collectors to leave NGC is there was a free stuff level and now there won't be a free stuff level. The illogical logic, to me, is that while Attica has its usefulness, if the ame collectors(s) decide that PCGS is in there interest, PCGS does not have the free stuff option, either. So, what point is really being made, because if the loyalty basis of the collector was based on a free stuff offering and now it is being pulled, that is not brand loyalty, at all.

 

It is possible that NGC is alienating those collectors that were not brand loyal to begin with, because if this is the reason the collector is choosing to switch, there is no loyalty to be had from the entity they want to switch to anyway. So what is the point?

 

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When this happened to World Coins in 2012, I moved my entire collection to PCGS and haven't looked back since.

 

What was the motivation for doing so? Was your collection a greater percentage of PCGS coins, or was it an economic based decision because of perceived increased value in the market, or just a protest against change, in that a free stuff registry model disappeared, i.e. a competitor decided to not support another competitor? Does PCGS allow NGC in their world coin registry?

 

I had about 50% of my collection in PCGS plastic at the time of the announcement and had to make a decision whether I would stay with NGC or move to PCGS. The reason I decided to go with PCGS is due to being a big believer in customer experience as a differentiator between service providers. The way NGC approached the move and the overall lack of communication / acknowledgement of the additional pains their existing customers had to go through with regards to their collection choices (and associated financial impact) made me feel like NGC didn't really care about what I thought or felt as a consumer of their services. It was an unpleasant experience, especially since I spent my own time and helped initially craft a number of Colonial Mexico registry sets.

 

Thanks for your answer. It is understandable you feel this way.

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The numismatic hobby is a dying hobby. We are not increasing our numbers by attracting younger people and the older collectors are dying off. The NGC has just put another nail in the coffin. Many of us have spent many hours and many thousands of dollars putting registry sets together (like a dog chasing his tail) to move up the registry ladder. Now we are forced to choose between PCGS or NGC and spend thousands of dollars to crossover, cracking the coins open to have them regraded or potentially purchasing new but equally graded coins. How many of us are just going to throw the coins over into a pile and find another addiction to spend our money on. For the third time, our best solution is to contact the ANA Board of Governors and lobby them to form a national registry set. This is where the registry sets should be. And, we should take the control out of the hands of the people who are only interested in the bottom line.

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Actually, NGC's decision will impact the prices collectors are willing to pay for NGC-graded classic coins which will necessarily filter down to the auctions. I heard about Saltzberg's decision only a week or so ago. I had about a dozen NGC coins on my watch list for the upcoming Heritage FUN auction. I deleted them all, not as a "protest" or to "punish" anyone, but because my NGC registry sets will ultimately have to be switched over to PCGS and I don't want to buy coins that won't fit (and none of the coins were end-of-the-world material). I can't know from an auction photo (or, for that matter, can't really know at all) whether a coin will cross to PCGS. Besides, I don't do the regrade and cross game. When I sell is when my dealer or consignor will do it. Just as CAC coins command a premium, my bet is that we'll see a significantly greater spread between PCGS and NGC prices. I never ascribed to the -ism in the high-end, high-price coin trade "if it could be in a PCGS holder, it would be in a PCGS holder." Soon enough though, that saying be gospel. Eventually, the only hard-date classic coins you'll see in NGC holders are those at the bottom of the barrel.

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Actually, NGC's decision will impact the prices collectors are willing to pay for NGC-graded classic coins which will necessarily filter down to the auctions. I heard about Saltzberg's decision only a week or so ago. I had about a dozen NGC coins on my watch list for the upcoming Heritage FUN auction. I deleted them all, not as a "protest" or to "punish" anyone, but because my NGC registry sets will ultimately have to be switched over to PCGS and I don't want to buy coins that won't fit (and none of the coins were end-of-the-world material). I can't know from an auction photo (or, for that matter, can't really know at all) whether a coin will cross to PCGS. Besides, I don't do the regrade and cross game. When I sell is when my dealer or consignor will do it. Just as CAC coins command a premium, my bet is that we'll see a significantly greater spread between PCGS and NGC prices. I never ascribed to the -ism in the high-end, high-price coin trade "if it could be in a PCGS holder, it would be in a PCGS holder." Soon enough though, that saying be gospel. Eventually, the only hard-date classic coins you'll see in NGC holders are those at the bottom of the barrel.

 

I hope you're wrong, but I'm not holding my breath. If there is any damage as a result of the decision, I don't think it will ever be reversible.

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I hope you're wrong, but I'm not holding my breath. If there is any damage as a result of the decision, I don't think it will ever be reversible.

 

It's not reversible. One think I learned about big business executives when I worked in the corporate world is that they are stubborn has hell. Their company could be going into the bankruptcy as a result of a bad decision or policy, but they will almost never back down. The only way to reverse a decision was to fire them.

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Thank you all for your feedback. We are always looking to improve your experience with NGC by making enhancements based on your comments and suggestions. I am happy to share two updates that we have made based on the posts, emails and calls that we received.

 

First, we have decided that PCGS-certified coins can continue to be added to Custom Sets in the NGC Registry. Since coins in Custom Sets are not assigned a score based on the grade assigned we made the determination that both NGC and PCGS-certified coins could remain eligible for Custom Sets. This will allow people who collect both NGC and PCGS-certified coins to continue to list their coins and sets in the NGC Registry through our Custom Set format.

 

Second, for those collectors who have expressed an interest in building NGC Registry sets with NGC-certified coins only, we are very pleased to offer a discounted CrossOver Special now until April 30, 2017. All PCGS-certified coins that are registered to a Competitive or Custom NGC Registry set prior to January 3, 2017 are eligible.

 

  • If the PCGS-certified coin is successfully "crossed over" (encapsulated by NGC), the normal NGC grading fees will be reduced by 50%.
  • If the PCGS-certified coin fails to cross, no NGC grading fees will be charged. (You pay only shipping, handling and insurance.) For more information on the CrossOver Special, click here.

Thanks again, and please feel free to contact us if you have any questions or comments.

 

Edited by dena

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Thank you, Dena. This is a step in the right direction. How many coins can you put in a custom set? The one time I built something like this about a 1913 Proof set you could only have have one picture, which was very limiting to the say the least.

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Hello Bill,

 

You may include an unlimited number of coins in a Custom Set and you can add two pictures per coin.

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The new policy seemingly ameliorates the concerns of those who use the registry primarily for educational and/or inventory purposes.

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Thank you all for your feedback. We are always looking to improve your experience with NGC by making enhancements based on your comments and suggestions. I am happy to share two updates that we have made based on the posts, emails and calls that we received.

 

First, we have decided that PCGS-certified coins can continue to be added to Custom Sets in the NGC Registry. Since coins in Custom Sets are not assigned a score based on the grade assigned we made the determination that both NGC and PCGS-certified coins could remain eligible for Custom Sets. This will allow people who collect both NGC and PCGS-certified coins to continue to list their coins and sets in the NGC Registry through our Custom Set format.

 

Second, for those collectors who have expressed an interest in building NGC Registry sets with NGC-certified coins only, we are very pleased to offer a discounted CrossOver Special now until April 30, 2017. All PCGS-certified coins that are currently registered to an NGC Registry are eligible.

 

  • If the PCGS-certified coin is successfully "crossed over" (encapsulated by NGC), the normal NGC grading fees will be reduced by 50%.
  • If the PCGS-certified coin fails to cross, no NGC grading fees will be charged. (You pay only shipping, handling and insurance.) For more information on the CrossOver Special, click here.

Thanks again, and please feel free to contact us if you have any questions or comments.

 

Does having a PCGS coin in a custom set count as the coin being in the registry?

 

Collectors of world coins cannot include PCGS slabbed coins in competitive sets but we can include them in custom sets.

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The offer applies to all PCGS coins that are added to Competitive or Custom NGC Registry sets prior to 1/3/17.

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I applaud NGC for making this change to NGC-only competitive sets. This will only strengthen the NGC brand and will remove marketplace ambiguity for many collectors.

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The offer applies to all PCGS coins that are added to Competitive or Custom NGC Registry sets prior to 1/3/17.

 

Thank you NGC for listening!

 

:applause:

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Is there any way of posting pictures of PCGS coins in the Custom Set mode if they are not already in the NGC registry?

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Is there any way of posting pictures of PCGS coins in the Custom Set mode if they are not already in the NGC registry?

 

Yes, if they are in your collection manager you can add them to any of your custom sets and from the coin edit menu upload any pictures you like. Or you can add them as new coins to the set and they populate the collection manager or is that vice versa? At any rate, I choose to add them first to my collection manager and then to my set. The downside is that you only get two pictures for your coin no matter how many sets your coin appears and those pictures are the same for all your sets. I've done custom sets for years and they are very flexible. To demonstrate I am including the link for my newest set, "The Coins and Medals of Laura Gardin Fraser."

 

https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/WCM/CoinCustomSetView.aspx?s=19449

 

I am glad to help, especially considering how much the educational benefits of your sets here means to me.

Gary

Edited by gherrmann44

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Thank you!

 

I just added a custom set for the 1945 - 7 "American sovereign" which was a gold coin the Philadelphia Mint made for Saudi Arabia. I could post a picture and write-up box for my 1947 one pound piece that is PCGS graded, but now I can!

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I thought this rule was already in effect, but I collect both US and World. My opinion, this has hurt the registry sets. It is hard to enough to find the right coin in the right condition for key dates. Then it has to be in the right holder as well. What is next, it needs to be in the right generation of holders. I collect proof like morgan dollars. If you want to talk about changing grading standards, then you have to include generation of holders.

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I have done some preliminary work with the custom sets, and have found that it works quite well. I'll be spending most of my efforts on those from this point forward. I hope that people will open these sets and look at them over time.

 

I'm pretty much done with the registry concept. The one brand only restriction by both services means that I would have to tailor my purchases to brand loyalty, and I'm not going to collect that way. If the coin works I buy it. It does not matter to me if it's NGC or PCGS.

 

I've looked at the PCGS registry, and it's a pain to navigate and the point system they use is totally confusing and complicated. I've posted up a few items over there, but no set could ever be complete because I have mixed PCGS and NGC coins in them.

 

I don't waste money on crossovers. The only thing that is worthwhile is crack-outs for upgrades. Any time you send in a coin in the other guy's holder, you have two strikes against you from the start. You are lucky if you get the same grade, even if you deserve to get the same grade. Crossovers are like a dog that chases its tail. It's a waste of time, money and energy.

 

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An unadvertised but cool feature of the Custom Sets is that they are indexed by Google. If you search for "My Three Suns Sol de Mayo", the first hit from Google will be a link to one of the slots in my short 8 reales set featuring sunface designs.

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Thank you!

 

I just added a custom set for the 1945 - 7 "American sovereign" which was a gold coin the Philadelphia Mint made for Saudi Arabia. I could post a picture and write-up box for my 1947 one pound piece that is PCGS graded, but now I can!

 

I looked at your "American Sovereign" set and found it fascinating! I had no idea that we made payments to Saudi Arabia after WWII with Philadelphia minted gold disks. The irony of it is that while our government could pay it's debts in gold, the American people were forbidden from even owning gold, let alone pay anyone with it.

Gary

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Thank you!

 

I just added a custom set for the 1945 - 7 "American sovereign" which was a gold coin the Philadelphia Mint made for Saudi Arabia. I could post a picture and write-up box for my 1947 one pound piece that is PCGS graded, but now I can!

 

I looked at your "American Sovereign" set and found it fascinating! I had no idea that we made payments to Saudi Arabia after WWII with Philadelphia minted gold disks. The irony of it is that while our government could pay it's debts in gold, the American people were forbidden from even owning gold, let alone pay anyone with it.

Gary

 

I have placed a few bids on both of the American Sovereigns with no luck (yet). Interesting history and they would go nicely with my soverign sets. For now - I can look at Bill's.

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