Is the hobby/business of coin collecting infested ?

[RWB]

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[World Colonial]

I don't know about spineless worms.

 

The business and financial side is certainly subject to its share of hype by exaggerating the merits of ordinary common coins as being a lot more significant that these items are in actuality. These exaggerations are the equivalent of awarding a "participation trophy" just for showing up.

[RWB]

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[physics-fan3.14]

I think your question should be amended slightly: Are there unethical, spineless worms in the hobby/business of coin collecting?

 

Yes. Definitely.

 

But, every other hobby and business has them as well. I'm not sure its endemic to the coin industry.

 

Are we overrun with them? No, I don't necessarily think so - it is because they are not the norm that they stand out so much. There is going to be greed, deception, unethical-ness, and greyness with respect to law anywhere that money is traded and profit is concerned.

[coinman_23885]

I think the entire hobby has been consumed with greed. Grade inflation that assures that TPGs won't have to pay out/evolving grading standards, TPG(s) reneging on guarantees and retroactively amending them to reduce coverage, professional organizations not enforcing their code of ethics (e.g. the PNG doesn't even publish its inquiry process online that I can find and overlooks certain members that have IMHO misrepresented items), etc.

 

[DC Dawg]

Actors acting in their own self interests isn't something that happens in the numismatics industry. This goes on everywhere those with money and the power money brings to gain an advantage.

 

Renege on a guarantee? Take us to court! We have more corporate money than you, but if that's not the case we'll find some way to settle.

 

Retroactively amending the guarantees and reducing coverage? When was the last time you really looked at your auto policy!

 

Professional organizations not enforcing their code of ethics? Don't get me started. I have a thick file on this from a case with the Florida Bar! Oh yea... and the Florida Bar stopped publishing their inquiries and penalties on line after I tried to use them in a case against a lying attorney.

 

It's all part of the golden rule: He who has the gold, rules!

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

The first sentence is egregiously incorrect, as witnessed by many TV commercials.

 

Changing (isn't) to (is) would correct this assault against all the Bard loving people of the world.

[World Colonial]

"...a "participation trophy" just for showing up."

 

Kool! That means I should get a lot at the next big auction just for submitting a bid sheet!

Great! I'll take the set of Stellas in Gold, Silver and Aluminum or maybe the Amazonian set...so hard to choose the participation award....

 

Those aren't the coins I had in mind but no, I still don't think they are as significant as the consensus claims.

[Nutmeg Coin]

One remedy for unsavory activity in numismatics would be more vigorous legal activity against known shady characters no matter how wealthy and big they may be. It could happen if a wealthy collector put up enough money to fund the enforcement arms of the ANA or similar organizations. Usually a collector or vest pocket dealer's complaint gets little traction because legal actions are so expensive.

[bstrauss3]

You are confusing many things...

 

Much of what we don't like is not a crime. Selling a piece of cr*p for more than it's 'worth' is legal. Making outlandish claims is sales puffery, also allow (only owned by a little old lady who drove it to church on Sunday).

 

Selling a known counterfeit as genuine is a crime, but when it comes to law enforcement, these are small potatoes, and rarely seen as justified in the resources they would consume... there are lots of serious crimes out there to investigate and prosecute.

 

 

The ANA, PNG, PCGS, NGC, etc. have no legal enforcement powers.

 

What the ANA can do is:

 

/1/ expel a member for violation of the code of ethics. That only has value if we choose only to patronize ANA member-dealers.

/2/ provide expertise to law enforcement

 

The problem with /2/ goes back to limited resources. Cops, prosecutors, judges, even juries understand that breaking & entering, murder, etc. are crimes. Most of the resources are targeted at counterfeiting of current currency (and even then, USSS only cares about wholesale, street level passers of bogus $20s are left to local prosecutors).

 

So when it comes to selling a little disk of metal for $1,000, there is a lot of education required: "So, it's fake and manufactured before 1973 it's ok, but if it's made after than and not marked it is illegal and that makes it fraud..."

 

 

 

[Nutmeg Coin]

I disagree; I was speaking in general terms of having the ANA or other numismatic organizations have more resources or power to aid the wronged party in fraud issues without the staggering amounts of money required to pursue justice. Of course you can work through their grievance committee, which costs $100 for the action and certain other criteria have to be met and assuming that both parties are ANA members. It would not be that problematic to have discount or free legal services available for the wronged collector to pursue action to put a halt to those who are damaging the hobby.

[RWB]

The ANA does not support or follow the Hobby Protection Act. Neither does the ANA follow its own Code of Ethics.

 

ANA apparently stands for "American Numismatic Annelids." They should change their logo from a lamp of enlightenment to a gaggle of marching Lamellibrachian tube worms.

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

The ANA does not support or follow the Hobby Protection Act. Neither does the ANA follow its own Code of Ethics.

 

ANA apparently stands for "American Numismatic Annelids." They should change their logo from a lamp of enlightenment to a gaggle of marching Lamellibrachian tube worms.

 

 

PNG has been accused of the same thing.

 

The "Professional Narcissist's Guild" as some would have it.

 

There is nothing new under the sun, according to Ecclesiastes...and that was written by Solomon 3000 years ago.

[RWB]

Yep...Fred Ecclesiastes -- runs an auto body repair shop in Gainsville, VA. Smart fellow.

[Nutmeg Coin]

Actually I have had some success with PNG for their prestigious members when they aren't breaking the rules. Use the system to your advantage.