Name one thing that makes this hobby less enjoyable for you ....

[wdrob]

 

My number one most aggravating aspect would seem insignificant to most but it drives me crazy.

 

I hate the way the TPG companies sell your contact information to dealers you have never had any business dealings with nor would ever even consider doing business with them.

 

Now a coin to keep it coin related.

 

 

 

[coinman_23885]

How do you know the TPGs were the ones that did it?

 

I was upset when a random dealer once called me at home and asked me if I still bought gold. I had never done business with the company, nor had I ever authorized anyone to release my information. For security concerns, I would obviously upset. I told them no, and not to call me back.

[wdrob]

How do you know the TPGs were the ones that did it?

 

A matter of deductive reasoning.

 

 

• I have never, according to any of my records, ever purchased from the company before
  
• I think it would stand to reason that competitive dealers would not freely give each other their clientele information to include home mailing address as well as email
  
• The final straw was when Legend sent me emails and then an auction package in the mail. I have never registered on that site, bought anything from that site, nor ever communicated with anyone (that I am aware of) from that site.
   
  

 

Maybe someone else would have a better explanation. I am all ears.

 

 

*** Edited to add; It is not just Legend. It started with L&C Coins, then Eagle Eye, Then another one I can't remember right now, and then Legend. I have never registered or had business dealings with one of those companies - Ever!

 

 

 

 

[coinman_23885]

Do you ever enter raffles at coin shows or subscribe to coin periodicals? I would like to know if the TPGs are doing this, and how to opt out.

 

P.S. At least the people calling or writing you are legitimate dealers (that I would have no problems doing business with). I never figured out who the company was that called me. I was really annoyed because I don't give out my home number except to a very few people.

[wdrob]

 

Hmm. That is a possibility.

 

I do not enter any raffles or attend coin shows but I am a member of the ANA. I just assumed since LS is on the "Board of Experts" for PCGS and is constantly over hyping the company above all others that her inside ties may have resulted in obtaining information that SHOULD have remained within the walls of any TPG company.

 

As I said earlier, I was not confident in my theory of it being a TPG company until Legend sent me that auction catalog in the mail. It was at that point when I decided it must be (at the very least) PCGS selling my info.

 

Keep in mind that I was receiving unsolicited emails and junk mail from L&C Coins and Eagle Eye prior to joining the ANA. That is one more reason I point my finger at the TPG company(s).

 

I have since chose not to renew my membership with PCGS. I think it was them. I hope NGC does not do that sort of thing.

 

 

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

I am not a member at PCGS.

 

I am a member at NGC, and have been for several years.

 

I have never been contacted by a dealer that was unsolicited, or for which I did not sign up.

 

Draw what conclusions you want from that.

[michael]

My number one most aggravating aspect would seem insignificant to most but it drives me crazy.

 

I hate the way the cdn and nn weekly companies sell your contact information to dealers you have never had any business dealings with nor would ever even consider doing business with them.

 

I still keep getting unwanted soliciations from the coin dealer newsletter every 6 months to subscribe and I have called them on more than one occasion and TOLD THEM TO STOP!! IT ALL goes unheeded..............................

 

I still get something from numismatic news every 6 months ro so but it is down hugely from the tens of requests I got from rat not legit coin hawkers the first 2 years I got a subscription from numismatic news ditto CDN

[MJ]

I'm a member at PCGS and have never been solicited by anyone period.

 

Mark

[World Colonial]

Higher prices on the coins I want to buy.

[Raisethis2]

I'm a member here and there. I've never been contacted either. I do have a couple Dealers from E-Bay send me junk mail because I bought from them once and they retained my contact info. That kinda pisses me off.

 

To the original question:

 

Having coins submitted for grading return "cleaned" where I can see zero evidence that's the case. I think the TPG's just have to have a sacrificial lamb with every submission.

[World Colonial]

Having coins submitted for grading return "cleaned" where I can see zero evidence that's the case. I think the TPG's just have to have a sacrificial lamb with every submission.

 

I have had coins returned as well, some I knew or at least suspected in advance would turn out this way and others I did not.

 

Though I still think many "details" coins are unfairly penalized financially, at least now the submitters gets more than they did before. "Details" grading is better than the prior "body bags".

[asdfgh]

I am a member of NGC and have never been contacted by any unwanted dealers.

I have been contacted by people who I bought from on ebay. Just remember that some of the

ebay accounts are multiple accounts by the same dealer. I know this by the flyers stuffed

in the packages being the same from 3 different ebay names.

 

[wdrob]

 

To the original question:

 

Having coins submitted for grading return "cleaned" where I can see zero evidence that's the case. I think the TPG's just have to have a sacrificial lamb with every submission.

 

+1

 

 

[BillJones]

Having coins submitted for grading return "cleaned" where I can see zero evidence that's the case. I think the TPG's just have to have a sacrificial lamb with every submission.

 

I agree with this. When I was dealer I sent in batches of coins to be graded. It seemed that no matter what I submitted for grading, ONE COIN always had to come back in a body bag even when there were not coins in the group that deserved it. In those days there was no such thing as "details" grades, so you got nothing for your money when a coin failed to grade.

 

I remember one coin in particular, a Seated Quarter, that had moderately attractive original toning, which came back in an "environmentally damaged" body bag, which was a total crock. The coin was perfect for the circulated grade of EF-45 or even AU-50. I sold the piece at the next show to a dealer who bought raw coins for Gray Sheet EF bid.

 

As for the unwanted dealer ads, cyber "junk mail," I've had so many contacts with dealers over the years that it is almost inevitable. I delete many of these messages although I do open the ones that come from dealers I respect.

 

And yes, I agree with the statement that high prices make the hobby less fun. In recent the supply of good coins on the bourse floor seems to have dried up, and I find myself spending more time chasing auction lots. I have always thought that auctions are a pain the butt. I have seldom bought any bargains at auction, and have often paid what I thought was full retail or more. You return options are limited, and it's expensive to travel to places to look at auction lots when there always the chance that you will end up empty handed. I'll take a bourse and pay a dealer his or her margin over that any time I can.

 

There is one more thing about the hobby that makes it less enjoyable, but my opinion will PO a lot of people, as usual. I resent the need to have my collection graded again by an organization that is irritatingly inconsistent, which has been placed on an undeserved high pedestal.

 

[World Colonial]

And yes, I agree with the statement that high prices make the hobby less fun. In recent the supply of good coins on the bourse floor seems to have dried up, and I find myself spending more time chasing auction lots. I have always thought that auctions are a pain the butt. I have seldom bought any bargains at auction, and have often paid what I thought was full retail or more. You return options are limited, and it's expensive to travel to places to look at auction lots when there always the chance that you will end up empty handed. I'll take a bourse and pay a dealer his or her margin over that any time I can.

 

My experience with the coins I collect is that the availability has increased along with the prices. The increase ranges from "somewhat" to "quite a bit", though few of my coins still come up for sale frequently. That is the upside.

 

The downside is that since I am not going to increase my budget to compensate for the price increases, I can't buy the same coins for the same money I did before. Looking back at what I could buy before versus now, I was able to buy some realy scarce and decent to high grade coins for very nominal prices.

 

Much of the price increase has been the result of seeing more of these coins in NGC or PCGS holders. Logically, US sellers won't offer any of the better coins in my series raw anymore. Some of these coins are also sold or at least offered at what I consider stupid money prices.

 

When do see a raw coin, the TPG prices have inflated its value anyway. I automatically assume any such coin offered by a US seller is a problem coin because there is no benefit to assume otherwise. From foreign sellers, its a mixed bag but the higher prices increase the financial risk.

[JKK]

One thing that makes it less enjoyable? Dealers who are quirky in the wrong ways. My favorite dealer's employees had the besetting sin of always talking politics. Not that they don't have the right, but I do think it's bad business, especially when they do their best to draw customers into the debate. I finally started saying (with a smile, because except for that sin, this was an excellent dealer): "Can we please take an hour off from partisan politics today?" There are also a number of dealers who are quirky as in basically socially dysfunctional/apathetic/rude. That puts me off. Now, I do understand that dealing with the public is challenging, that they get a lot of stupid phone calls, and they spend a lot of time telling people that grandpa's collection of '64 Kennedys isn't worth that much even if it's all uncirculated. However, I think a lot of retail dealers are just not very good socially, and it gets fatiguing.

 

What I like is dealers where, at least, over time one can build a solid business relationship. I've learned to give the gruff ones a little time, because if you keep coming back, some of them warm up quite a bit. My dealer in Boise was that way, and I'll need to find that dealer in the Portland area.

[Raisethis2]

About every 3 months or so I walk into my local brick and mortar and announce "I want you to make some money off of me today". I will then proceed to sell them something I'm not invested into for too much money.

 

In this way I think they have grown to like me and give solid advice and answer questions. This saves me money on future purchases I make elsewhere.

 

Seems like a fair tradeoff.

[BillJones]

My experience with the coins I collect is that the availability has increased along with the prices. The increase ranges from "somewhat" to "quite a bit", though few of my coins still come up for sale frequently. That is the upside.

 

This was true for U.S. coins years ago. Higher prices used to pull more good stuff out of the woodwork. Now, however, a lot of "the good stuff" is in strong hands. Most of the owners don't feel compelled to sell their better material until they really want to do it. When they do sell it, it is more likely to end up at an auction than sold privately to a dealer.

 

I think that the foreign coin market is going through the same phases as the U.S. coin market except that the market developments are coming after the U.S. market. There will probably some less popular areas of the foreign market that will always be as they are today because the universe of foreign coins is so large. Still the day might come, World Colonial, where you will be shoved into the auction scene. The trouble is the 17.5% buyers' fee makes it harder to make money on auction sales, even if you can negotiate to get 100% of the hammer price.

 

Higher buyers' fees work to the disadvantage of auction consigners. And believe it or not the buyers' fees are even higher for other hobbies. For example the Heritage buyers' fee for political items is 25%. That has a very negative effect upon me when it comes to bidding in those auctions. Other political items companies charge 15%.

 

I hope that the major auction houses will hold the line on the buyers' fee. If they don't, I hope that other smaller auction houses will undercut their higher fees and give consigners additional options so that they will be able to bypass the big sellers, and perhaps force them back into line.

 

[okbustchaser]

The number one thing that makes the hobby less enjoyable than it once was?

 

People's total obsession with "How much can I flip this for?" Once upon a time people actually collected coins for the purpose of collecting them. Now it seems like no one is interested in the coins, themselves--only what they can be sold for.

[BillJones]

The number one thing that makes the hobby less enjoyable than it once was?

 

People's total obsession with "How much can I flip this for?" Once upon a time people actually collected coins for the purpose of collecting them. Now it seems like no one is interested in the coins, themselves--only what they can be sold for.

 

I'm one of the dinosaurs I guess. Flipping does not seem like a fun game to me.

[World Colonial]

I think that the foreign coin market is going through the same phases as the U.S. coin market except that the market developments are coming after the U.S. market. There will probably some less popular areas of the foreign market that will always be as they are today because the universe of foreign coins is so large. Still the day might come, World Colonial, where you will be shoved into the auction scene. The trouble is the 17.5% buyers' fee makes it harder to make money on auction sales, even if you can negotiate to get 100% of the hammer price.

 

I agree with your comments. I have already bought a decent percentage of my coins from auctions (not including eBay) up to this point, though I have never computed the percentage or number. Many of them only come up with specialized auction houses or in the sale of substantial collections. Its much higher percentage for the scarcest of my coins and Spanish colonials too. This is a combination of both US and foreign auctions, though the foreign auctions almost exclusively sell coins ungraded.

 

I already assume I will end up selling most of my better coins through Heritage, most of the rest on eBay with the balance at a foreign auction house. The latter will be Spanish colonial coins either in or only eligible for "details" grades if preferences elsewhere remain mostly as they are today, which may change.

[James_OldeTowne]

[*]I think it would stand to reason that competitive dealers would not freely give each other their clientele information to include home mailing address as well as email

I certainly do not agree with this. Multiple coin companies that I know of share customer data.

[James_OldeTowne]

Incidentally, I did not answer the opening question... what makes this hobby less enjoyable for me? Very simple: HYPE, most especially the kind that keeps trumpeting the high value of top-end high grade coins in top, high end slabs from the top, high end dealers at top prices ... etc.

 

And I also get sooo tired of hearing how I always ought to get "one more opinion" out there for my coins before it's OK to enjoy them ... but that's just me .

[#]

Done

[World Colonial]

The haggling. I mean look at in a percentage. A few dollars on a hundred; a few hundred on several thousand? Once and only once I had a gentleman argue over $900.00 on a $65k purchase on a note I was selling for a friend. Buy it or don't. I rarely sell coins when I do I price them fairly. I restore muscle cars and I do not negotiate at all. If you want a top or near the top or best in anything pay for it or pass.

Also I don't deal with anyone that contacts me to purchase their wares. I'll find them when I'm ready to buy.

 

I have never negotiated in person because I have only bought nominally priced coins at coin shows and never buy in person from a dealer. I have on occassion made counteroffers both on eBay and on dealer websites.

 

You may price your coins fairly. Many other sellers do not.

[World Colonial]

Incidentally, I did not answer the opening question... what makes this hobby less enjoyable for me? Very simple: HYPE, most especially the kind that keeps trumpeting the high value of top-end high grade coins in top, high end slabs from the top, high end dealers at top prices ... etc.

 

And I also get sooo tired of hearing how I always ought to get "one more opinion" out there for my coins before it's OK to enjoy them ... but that's just me .

 

A lot of collectors have a hugely inflated opinion of the coins they like, buy or own. From what I can see, those who have a preference for TPG (US and South Africa) in my experience exaggerate the most.

[CSdot]

Inability to find quality coins locally. I live in a small to middle size southern town (200,000) and I have a hard time finding coins I want to buy. Even at the twice a year show we have locally, I am lucky if one or two dealers has inventory I am interested in. Sometimes I wish I lived up north or out west in a big city. Eventually I need to make it to the major southern show (FUN) where I hear there is a good selection.

[BillJones]

Inability to find quality coins locally. I live in a small to middle size southern town (200,000) and I have a hard time finding coins I want to buy. Even at the twice a year show we have locally, I am lucky if one or two dealers has inventory I am interested in. Sometimes I wish I lived up north or out west in a big city. Eventually I need to make it to the major southern show (FUN) where I hear there is a good selection.

 

It all depends upon what you would like buy and the level of your collecting. I've been attending major shows since the 1970s, and I can tell that the selection is not what it used to be. The weakness you see in the local shows is also reflected in the regional and national shows. A lot of times you have to go the auction route.

 

I would urge you go to the winter FUN show. I think that you will enjoy it. One bit of advice, however, go with a want list. With over 500 dealers you will feel overwhelmed with the amount of material that is offered.

[Nutmeg Coin]

A lack of perspective of the place that numismatics has in the rest of life, lack of sociability and collectors and dealers helping one another.

[PerryHall]

How do you know the TPGs were the ones that did it?

 

I was upset when a random dealer once called me at home and asked me if I still bought gold. I had never done business with the company, nor had I ever authorized anyone to release my information. For security concerns, I would obviously upset. I told them no, and not to call me back.

 

Did you even bother to ask him where he got your contact information?