Would You Like to See a Large Cent in MS-70?

[BillJones]

Here it is!

 

 

Before you get too excited this 1820 large cent was graded MS-70 back in the days before the Sheldon scale was applied to anything beyond large cents. Of all the numbers in the Sheldon scale MS-70 is the only number that denotes a lesser coin then than it does now. The "70" number referred to market value, which was equal to the basal value (barely identifiable as to the die variety, but not damaged) times the grading number. In Sheldon's system an MS-70 coin was worth 70 times the basal value, which was the highest score, at least at first.

 

Later Sheldon tried to keep his system alive by multiplying the basal value X grade point by a factor of three or four for pieces in the condition census. (The finest know examples for a given variety.). The Sheldon system never worked over the long haul, and is now only used for numerical grading.

 

This coin came from the Naftzger Collection. Nafrzger collected the best of the best, and this was one of the best 1820 N-13 that he had seen. This is a Randal Hoard variety, and it is quite common on Mint State, BUT most 1820 N-13's don't look like this piece. Nafrzger noted that on the envelope. The 1820 N-13 is the most common Randal Hoard coin.

 

This was another of my EAC convention purchases. I'm dipping my feet into the large cent market to see if I might get interested in forming large cent date collection.

 

PCGS only graded this piece MS-65, R&B. It is R&B, but the grade is higher than 65. In the same deal I bought an 1817 large cent in MS-66 that is not as nice.

 

Here is the Naftzger envelope.

 

[coinman_23885]

Congratulations on your new acquisition; it is amazing. I agree with you that PCGS was tough on the piece. It looks like a nice 66RB to me.

[RWB]

PCGS might be tougher on Randal hoard coins than is warranted?

[johnny9434]

nice large cent

[Raisethis2]

Holy die crack Batman!!!!!

 

 

Beautiful coin there Bill.

[physics-fan3.14]

I'm having a hard time interpreting your images (combined with my lack of knowledge of copper). What is driving/holding the grade? Looks like an attractive piece, and I like the color of it.

[BillJones]

What is driving/holding the grade?

 

Either the grader does not know early copper very well, or it's kind of like when they are grading 1881-S silver dollars. They expect the coin to be nice so when they see a really nice coin they get tough on it.

 

I think that the piece is undergraded by at least a point. When you look at the MS-66 I purchased, of which I have posted pictures in another thread, this coin has to be an MS-67, if that is an MS-66.

 

Looks like an attractive piece, and I like the color of it.

 

On an R&B large cent of this age, it does not get any better than this. There is full luster on both sides, original red and no spots.

[CaptHenway]

Very nice coin!

[dragon]

<<< PCGS only graded this piece MS-65, R&B. It is R&B, but the grade is higher than 65. In the same deal I bought an 1817 large cent in MS-66 that is not as nice. >>>

 

 

 

 

Sharp looking coin. Perhaps if you wait a few months the PCGS grading 'standards' will change yet again and it'll grade the way it should've to begin with?

 

[Treeman]

Very nice cent, however, I have to agree with PCGS. Too many small ticks to grade any higher. From what I've seen, I think it would be 64+ in an NGC slab. Just my humble opinion, and I will admit, my eyes are getting bad from 40+ years of lookin' at Large Cents :-)

 

Just looked at the 1817 MS66 you stated was "not as nice". Again, my humble opinion... The 1817 may have less "eye appeal", but is technically a much cleaner coin. Reverse of the 1820 (around "CA" of America, and "U" of United) is what is keeping it from a higher grade.

[BillJones]

And in the "humble opinion" of the EAC dealer from whom I purchased this piece and me, the MS-66 is not as good. I paid more than 25% less for the MS-66 than I did for the MS-65 despite the fact that the PCGS price guide says it is worth more.

 

Just because a person lands a job at a grading service does not make them an expert in all areas of numismatics.

[Treeman]

I had absolutely no intention of offending you or your coin. It is a beautiful cent, but it does have some hits on the reverse. From your pics, the 1817 is better. I think the dealer may have been biased, as we all can be with our own coins. Then again, I have seen 65's in 66 slabs, and vice versa. Hard to really grade a coin from pics, but hits do show in pics, and hits affect the grade, especially gem and above....

[bsshog40]

Very nice Bill!