Help me understand

[pcunix]

First, just a little history so you understand. I started with coins very young when I inherited a partial U.S. type set after my grandfather died in 1954. I collected avidly up to 1964 and then the clad turned me off. In the 70's, I stupidly sold off just about everything including all my books. That was about it - I bought some gold eagles in 88 and a gold proof set in 2000 but then sold those in 2005, leaving me with just one large cent and one 1878 Morgan.

 

I'm now 66. The bug bit me this year and I've been reassembling what I can remember of that original collection and extending it. OK, on to the real question.

 

TPG had barely begun when I quit in the 70's, but somehow I had a blue box from that other company. Probably was given it much, much later, of course.

 

When I started buying again, I was buying NGC or theirs, but of course I immediately noticed NGC slabs don't fit in that box, so I've been not buying NGC generally and when I needed more boxes, I got theirs.

 

Then I start reading that they grade better. Well, I look at my stuff and I don't see it, but hey, I'm no grading expert, right? And I do see that their slabs tend to sell for more.

 

So - is it all perception? In other words, because people believe it, it becomes reality? Or was it that it once was true but isn't now?

 

I assume that most of the people here don't believe it? But then there is that price difference. Does that tick you off or do you think "Hey, I'm getting the same grade for less money" ?

 

But if that's true, you get less when selling too.

 

So how do you resolve all this? Yeah, you can tell me to just go get some NGC boxes, but that doesn't answer the underlying issue.

 

 

 

[DaveG]

Well, it depends on what you collect, but. . .

 

I resolve the "issues" among the grading services by just focusing on the coins and not worrying about what plastic the coin is in.

 

For example, I have some really nice coins in the old small ANACS holders and I still see some decent coins in the old ANACS holders at shows I go to.

 

Why would I not buy a decent coin at a decent price just because it's not in the "right" plastic?

 

Now, the ANACS slabs don't really fit in either the PCGS or NGC boxes, but I usually put an ANACS coin in between two PCGS or NGC coins and that works OK.

 

As far as "grading better", the person who should "grade better" is YOU - not somebody in Florida or California.

 

If you're worried that your friends and dealers won't appreciate coins that aren't in a specific brand of plastic, then just simply get more sophisticated friends and dealers, who appreciate a nice coin, regardless of what plastic it's in.

 

It's true, NGC boxes aren't as cheap as PCGS boxes, but they're still easier to find than nice coins.

 

edited to add: I collect mid-19th century coins, mostly. If I collected moderns, my attitude might be different.

[RWB]

Dave G is on the nose -- it depends on what you collect.

 

For example, I used to collect ants and found that alomst any slab was OK. Then I switched to collecting aardvarks and none of the major slabs seems right -- the critters are so squeezed in that the detail is hard to see.

 

[pcunix]

 

edited to add: I collect mid-19th century coins, mostly. If I collected moderns, my attitude might be different.

 

How so?

[BillJones]

Our hosts are wonderful about allowing us to express our honest opinions without banning or threatening us, so I'm going to give my honest opinion.

 

ON AVERAGE PCGS is a bit more conservative in its grading than NGC, BUT the key word here is AVERAGE. There are NGC coins with the same grade on the slab that are as good or better than their PCGS counterparts. There are coins in holders from both services that were mistakes. These coins are over graded, or they had something done to them that should have been caught.

 

I have coin getting a review at PCGS right now that should never have gone into the holder it is in. I goofed up. We all do.

 

The key is YOU as a consumer have to learn as much as you can about grading. You can't depend upon the grading services for everything.

 

Beyond the two leading grading services there is CAC which grades the grading services. They place their green or gold sticker on coins that they are willing to buy and sell in their network of dealers. That is an important feature, but it is not the be all and end all. I have seen CAC approved coins that I did not like. Once more you need to be an active participant in the grading exercise.

 

Most of the coins in my collection are PCGS graded, but the most expensive and valuable coin in my collection is NGC graded, and it is not an insignificant item. You can buy NGC graded coins for less money and get coins that are as nice or better than their PCGS counterparts. Will the market recognize and pay you for that? As of now, not generally, but as a collector, it's the coin that should count, not the holder. If you have a problem coin in a holder, it's going to be hard to sell that piece to a dealer for a good price regardless if it's NGC or PCGS.

 

I can't give you a "magic bullet" answer. I can only tell you that knowledge is king, and the more you know and the more grading skills you have, the better this hobby will be for you.

[DaveG]

pcunix,

 

Allow me to elaborate.

 

I mostly collect mid-19th century coins in nice VF to XF grades, so I'm reasonably indifferent to the plastic and in some cases, I'll even buy raw.

 

If, on the other hand, I collected what I consider "ultra-high grade" moderns, such as -69 and -70 coins, then I'd probably have a PCGS registry set and would therefore be entirely focused on finding or "making" those coins in PCGS slabs.

 

I don't think I need to elaborate on the PCGS registry phenomenon, as I'm pretty sure that's been beaten to death many times.

[BillJones]

When it comes to "ultra high grade -69 and -70 coins" PCGS pretty well dominates that market when it comes getting collectors to pay ultra high prices.

 

Frankly I don't care for those kind of "condition rarities" especially at the amounts some people pay for them. Even if the grades were "carved in stone" (i.e. were guaranteed not to change in a subsequent submission) I still think that material is over priced. I can be just as happy with PR-69 for a lot less money than I would be with a PR-70. I don't collect ultra moderns in Mint State, so I won't comment on those.

[WoodenJefferson]

The perception that one service is better than the other has been personified for so many years, collectors actually believe it now with out question. You can show a Kool-Aide drinker a gorgeous coin with a generous grade and the first thing that comes to their mind is, "I wonder if it would cross?"

 

The two leading grading services have put a lot of time and effort to give the collector a reliable service at a reasonable price, it should always be about the coin and not the color of the label or the box of 20 they come in.

 

If you have a preference that's fine, but when you have dealers where you bring in two identical coins in two different plastic holders and the dealer discounts one just because he can sell the other one for a better price to a brain washed collector?

This idea of this anomaly has perpetuated and has been discussed, re-hashed for years now...there are good coins in both, there are bad coins in both. Heck, even the hawkers on TV sell their moderns as : "You can get them in brand x or brand Y for get this, the same price!" Even they realize the leading grading services run neck and neck on quality and dependability.

 

Collect what you like, if your going to flip for money, get the bait the piranhas are feeding on this week.

 

Good luck.

[Kurtdog]

So - is it all perception? In other words, because people believe it, it becomes reality?

Sherlock, I think you reached the first plateau. The French have a rather cynical term for it, bourrage de crane. Literally-translated, "brain-stuffing."

[RWB]

"The French have a rather cynical term for it, bourrage de crane. Literally-translated, 'brain-stuffing.' "

 

Certainly an apt term for the whole first-strike, MS70 fad, pocket change grading mess.

 

 

[jpcienkus]

The perception that one service is better than the other has been personified for so many years, collectors actually believe it now with out question. You can show a Kool-Aide drinker a gorgeous coin with a generous grade and the first thing that comes to their mind is, "I wonder if it would cross?"

 

The two leading grading services have put a lot of time and effort to give the collector a reliable service at a reasonable price, it should always be about the coin and not the color of the label or the box of 20 they come in.

 

If you have a preference that's fine, but when you have dealers where you bring in two identical coins in two different plastic holders and the dealer discounts one just because he can sell the other one for a better price to a brain washed collector?

This idea of this anomaly has perpetuated and has been discussed, re-hashed for years now...there are good coins in both, there are bad coins in both. Heck, even the hawkers on TV sell their moderns as : "You can get them in brand x or brand Y for get this, the same price!" Even they realize the leading grading services run neck and neck on quality and dependability.

 

Collect what you like, if your going to flip for money, get the bait the piranhas are feeding on this week.

 

Good luck.

 

+1 Well stated.

[James_OldeTowne]

The truth is that ON AVERAGE, the two major TPGs grade the same. Some people insist on paying more for one brand, though, and will always bring up individual examples to "prove" that they've made a smarter decision than someone who buys the other brand.

 

I look at it this way. Both companies do a great job, so it makes sense to consider OTHER factors in your decision on which brand to use.

 

For me, customer service is very important, and I base my preference on that.