Really Collectors Society? posted by Meade Collection
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27 posts in this topic

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I think the CS is cheating collectors.

 

Recently I got one of the most incredible coins, one that I have been chasing for years. Top of the pop by PCGS! However, oh my, the Collectors Society does not allow PCGS graded coins in the World Competitive sets... While I do not collect coins to put in the sets, well I felt cheated by the Society. This is a coin worth thousands of point and believe me, I am not about to spend 100 just to change holder to NGC (after adding S&H both ways + grading, etc). While normally I submit my coins to NGC I found this rule to be unfair against the collector. Other than greediness on the part of NGC I see no other reason to deny a PCGS coin in the sets. They do allow them on US sets; I see no reason for the exclusion from World sets. I doubt that this is because anyone thinks that PCGS grading is sub-standard or a similar reason. I hope the Collectors Society will re-think this rule that only annoys people. Unless of course they have a good and valid reason, and that one, I am dying to hear...

 

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Whats the difference with PCGS not allowing NGC slabs in their registries????

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I do not disagree. But I do not see why US coins allow PCGS and World do not. Would you submit to NGC 20% of your collection just because they are on PCGS holders? Of course I like the coin, not the holder, but I do not like the policy.

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I hear ya. I think this policy change was made last year sometime. Hopefully they still let us keep the pcgs coins in the us coin categories otherwise I will probably just delete my sets. Too much hassle to regrade or sell and rebuy.

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I own over 500 certified coins, only 5 are PCGS. I for one am not bothered by the exclusion of PCGS. I can only hope they exclude PCGS from all sets. That is what it seems they are moving towards.

 

It would be fair in the fact that PCGS does not allow NGC coins in their registry. I would like to see the two registries completely seperate. I hate to find the top ranked set to be mostly PCGS. My favorite is seeing that top set all pcgs without pictures or anything. Heck, obscure it while your at it! :banana:

 

 

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After all this is a NGC web site I think all PCGS and other TPG's coins should not be allowed in sets for that matter Its not fair for all of us who use NGC only for grading our coins. after all we want the best to grade our coins....Mike

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Wouldn't be practical to eliminate PCGS coins from the NGC U.S. registries. First of all, in many U.S. series, there are far, far more PCGS-graded coins available and not enough NGC-graded coins to go around. Second, most everyone has several PCGS-graded coins in their set(s) and it would be a major expense and hassle to cross them to NGC and/or replace them with NGC-graded coins. I'd guess that three quarters of the U.S. sets would be eliminated from the competitive ranks of the registry (all of my sets included). Third, NGC set the rules years ago (viz., both NGC and PCGS coins are set-eligible). In view of the long-standing policy and the reliance of participants, A LOT of people would be completely turned off to NGC if they changed the rules now.

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I believe this policy was started when NGC opened offices up overseas. I think it was a smart decision not to let PCGS world coins in overseas as they were both (NGC and PCGS) challenging for new countries abroad at the same time. However they had to do right and also hold the same rule here in the US. We lost a lot of good members and knowledge here in the club when they did the change.

You can build a PCGS world coin set in the custom section I believe.

 

Rick

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I think the reason behind excluding PCGS coins from the NGC registry has to do with attribution of certain types of world coins. there are many varieties that PCGS attributes that NGC does not.

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A silly question: What is the purpose of the "registeries" or "Register sets" etc?

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A silly question: What is the purpose of the "registeries" or "Register sets" etc?

I just use it for a collection manager of sort. I can get to it easy and I can use it to remind me of what I have and don't have. Of course, I have a program on my home pc for this also, but good to have the registry for when I'm away from home and possibly shopping for something.

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A silly question: What is the purpose of the "registeries" or "Register sets" etc?

 

Really?? I'd say REGISTRIES are there:

 

To build, showcase and/or exhibit.

 

To compete with others

 

To teach & learn

 

& as was already stated

 

To organize in a database with images, prices, buy/sell info and item descriptions.

 

I must admit that I ENJOY ALL of these components and it has really FUELED my collecting. I LIKE IT. Would I still collect without the registry? YES, of course....but it wouldn't be quite as much FUN IMHO.

 

 

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Well, for once I enjoy the registries and competing. And I send all my raw coins to NGC. But once in a while I get a PCGS coin and I am disappointed because they are excluded. For instance, if my PCGS coins were allowed, I would have the most points in one of the sets. But no. I enjoy the hobby but I am not Bill Gates to send to NGC any PCGS coin that I get. The registry makes my life simple to keep records, compete, see other coins from other collectors (quite enjoyable). NGC has my loyalty if you will. But that would not stop me from getting a quality coin graded by another service. I wish, really, that the policy changed.

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NGC has my loyalty, as well, but it would have been impossible for me to assemble the sets that I have put together with a mutually exclusive company such as 'only-PCGS' or 'only-NGC'. That is why I really love NGC and their Registry Set, since BOTH are allowed in the US sets categories.

 

If they ever make it so only NGC coins are allowed in all sets. I will be done with all registries and that is the same reason why I don't compete ATS. I would never crack everything out and resubmit it to have just one or the other TPGS---that's nuts. All of my NGC coins are among my best and I could never replace them----they are every bit as good if not better than PCGS. My collection wouldn't be the same without them but I need my PCGS coins, too, b/c not everything is readily available in NGC plastic.

 

The only thing that I could see myself doing is getting involved in a registry set that is owned and operated by a unbiased, objective, third party, numismatically-related company, such as Heritage for example, that would allow both NGC AND PCGS slabs to compete. Those are the only two companies that I care for and would not want any other TPGs included such as ICG or ANACS.

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I, too, am disappointed in NGC's change in policy that happened while I was in the middle of assembling my 8 reales sets.

 

But I really want to know about this fabulous world coin that you have acquired. You can still journal about PCGS coins and display them in custom sets so please share more details about this special find.

 

~jack

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I just looked into your custom set and that's one sweet 8 reales. I never realized that Agustín de Iturbide had pork-chop sideburns -- all the other coins with his image that I've seen were either too worn or weakly struck to bring out that detail.

~jack

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I own over 500 certified coins, only 5 are PCGS. I for one am not bothered by the exclusion of PCGS. I can only hope they exclude PCGS from all sets. That is what it seems they are moving towards.

 

It would be fair in the fact that PCGS does not allow NGC coins in their registry. I would like to see the two registries completely seperate. I hate to find the top ranked set to be mostly PCGS. My favorite is seeing that top set all pcgs without pictures or anything. Heck, obscure it while your at it! :banana:

 

Totally agree with this from the beginning; and people were mad. Don't like it then play somewhere else. As far as competition; That's a total JOKE! If I put my business assets into coins I too could blow every dealer here out of their coveted number one sets. Life is not fair, whine, whine. Unless your Bill Gates someone will always have money than you. Two of my three most expensive coins are in PCGS and stay there regardless of NGC policy. I wish it was only NGC here and PCGS there; at least it would be team like. Lastly, how many times is this going to be complained about? Grow up or move on!

David

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I have adjusted to the policy and agree with the attributes issue over world coins that has already been mentioned in this thread. Attributions for US coins are much more standard and well documented making it easier for NGC to accept US PCGS graded coins.

 

That said, world coins are much more vast and diverse and in reality only a small portion of world coins even have a corresponding NGC competitive set. In fact NGC is constantly creating new world sets for its members with the attributes they decided to accept.

 

Most of my remaining PCGS world coins now reside in one of my custom sets where they are still allowed. Even though there are no points as in competitive sets, I decide the parameters of the set and the coins that will go in them. Isn't that what the hobby is really all about?

 

Don't get me wrong I like the competitive sets for all the reasons that Walkerfan documented and more, but when it gets down to it, I collect what I want in the quality I want and can afford.

Gary

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I just looked into your custom set and that's one sweet 8 reales. I never realized that Agustín de Iturbide had pork-chop sideburns -- all the other coins with his image that I've seen were either too worn or weakly struck to bring out that detail.

~jack

 

Thanks, it is indeed a nice one.

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Hello,

Well....I don't know what your PCGS graded coin is. But I am a collector of World coins here on the NGC Registry, and I can offer my thoughts on this issue, based on my experiences, that may explain some of this.

 

My main areas of collecting are the coins of the Ottoman Empire and Germany, and all of my graded coins have been graded by NGC. I'm not sure if this is true in all areas of World Coins, but in what I collect, the standards of NGC and PCGS are very far apart, with NGC being stricter. For example, let's talk about coins made out of zinc. There are many German coins minted in this highly reactive, troublesome metal. Zinc tends to develop this nasty white crust rather easily with any prolonged exposure to moisture, and there are many zinc coins out there with this corrosion. When such a coin comes through the NGC grading room, it always nets a Details Grade, unless you send it to NCS and they're able to work their magic. They aren't always. Like I said, zinc is a very difficult and troublesome metal. On the PCGS side of this issue, I've seen several zinc coins with deep pits of this white zinc rust certified with a full grade, not details or genuine. This seems to be a relatively common occurrence with PCGS zinc coins, so clearly the standards of the two services are very different. This is also true of German and Ottoman coins of other metals in PCGS holders.....coins are graded a little higher than they may deserve, or they should have received a details grade and instead received a full grade. So, in my experience, that is why PCGS world coins are no longer allowed in competitive sets here....the standards are just too far apart.

 

On the US side of things, the standards of the two companies seem to be much closer to one another. While I don't do much with US coins, my girlfriend does a lot with them. She has a couple of PCGS graded coins in her collection, and the grading looks fine there to both of us. She prefers NGC, and 98% of her graded coins are NGC coins, but she's fine with her couple of PCGS coins.

 

Also, please note that I'm not PCGS bashing. Not at all. I'm just saying what I've experienced in my collecting with the two services and proposing a theory as to why this state of affairs exists. In my opinion, I think it's rather generous for NGC to allow any PCGS coins in any part of their Registry at all. First an foremost, NGC is a business. They're there to make a profit, and there's nothing in it for them to allow PCGS coins here at all. PCGS certainly does not allow NGC coins in their Registry. So it's a gift and a bonus that NGC does allow any PCGS coins, once again in my opinion.

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I remember when NGC announced this decision and I was worried it was a signal that a massive change was coming to all NGC registries. Fortunately it was limited to the world coins. While I have sympathy for existing registry using world coin collectors who were hurt during the change, I am not sure that sympathy extends to a collector who is just starting to use the registries. That would be like one of us getting angry at PCGS for denying NGC slabbed coins on their registry. Their answer would be, "yeah, so what?"

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On 4/16/2014 at 5:22 PM, Kaiser14 said:

Wouldn't be practical to eliminate PCGS coins from the NGC U.S. registries. First of all, in many U.S. series, there are far, far more PCGS-graded coins available and not enough NGC-graded coins to go around. Second, most everyone has several PCGS-graded coins in their set(s) and it would be a major expense and hassle to cross them to NGC and/or replace them with NGC-graded coins. I'd guess that three quarters of the U.S. sets would be eliminated from the competitive ranks of the registry (all of my sets included). Third, NGC set the rules years ago (viz., both NGC and PCGS coins are set-eligible). In view of the long-standing policy and the reliance of participants, A LOT of people would be completely turned off to NGC if they changed the rules now.

And did happen...

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And besides happening to US coins too, several members complained. And NGC again, did not listen. I still have fun and submit to NGC, and collect the best coins I can without regard for the holder.

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