1859-S Seated Half Dollar
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102 posts in this topic

OK, one more question Larry, why do you think that? Is that in your own experience dealing with Southern Coins or for some other reason? If they don't send the exact coin that I purchased then as long as I return it I'll only be out a few bucks in shipping. I certainly hope that isn't the case, I can't imagine that they would get a lot of return customers if they practice such things.

Edited by Nokesville
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I've had the same experience with Great Southern Coin on a couple Morgan Dollars. The coins I received looked nothing like the coins in the photos provided. If you buy from Great Southern Coin, make sure the coin is already in a TPG holder and not one of those DIY basement holders.

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I sincerely hope that you have purchased a coin from GS that will grade. It is unfortunate that GS is well known for photos that hide cleaning and other issues.

 

The photos look fine, the source of the photos is the issue.

 

Let us know the results of your submission.

 

Carl

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Ratz... I haven't received it yet. I'll certainly take pictures and repost when it arrives to get some additional opinions. Im still interested in what an "expert" would say about the grade of the coin in the photo. Ive been spending hours and hours learning the craft since I picked it back up a couple of months ago after 2 decades. I collected coins as a kid and put it on hold for a bunch of different reasons but I finally have the money to start again and have been glued to a book or my computer for many weeks now. So any opinions would be appreciated.

 

It seems that MS62 or even MS63 might be appropriate based on the NGC auction examples, but I don't know if the nicks on the reverse rim near the 2 and 12 o'clock position will affect the grade. And like I have read elsewhere, there are certain things you can't see in a photo.

Edited by Nokesville
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The coin is not going to be met with warm reception simply because it is a GSC coin.

 

There is a very heavy presence of negativity here on this site (possibly on other sites as well) toward that seller on eBay, either by personal first hand experience or by sheep following the heard, of which I am not sure which is accurate. Maybe both.

 

Every new member of this site, that happens to buy a GSC coin and then posts about it is indoctrinated into the anti GSC hate club. It may very well be a warranted assessment but I find it hard to believe that out of the 107949 total transactions this company has auctioned on eBay they can really be quite as bad as some would lead you to believe when they only have 12 negatives in the last 12 months and a 100% rating.

 

The proponents of the 'watch out for GSC' mentality will make claims that they only have 12 negatives since they sell only to naive and new to the hobby buyers, or worse than that, the buyers are experienced and knowledgeable but fail to leave negative feedback either out of shame or sheer laziness.

 

Others will make the claim that if the coin were any good in the first place then they would have already had it in a certified holder by one of the major TPG's, as if people do not routinely sell problem free un-slabbed coins for that reason alone. If one were to follow that line of reasoning then the entire Eric P. Newman collection was junk coins since "any good coin has already found a holder".

 

I will say that I know for a fact that if you receive that coin and are not happy with it then they will take it back with absolutely no attempts to inject guilt or any other questions. They will only tell you how to return the item for a full refund.

 

I do not have any affiliation with that company. I do not know one single person that works for that company. I do not even buy coins from that company. I am only voicing this opinion since I feel that somewhere along the line, someone was wronged by GSC and set forth on a personal vendetta to hurt the company economically in some shape or form.

 

 

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My guess is that in hand, the coin will look worse and/or display evidence of cleaning. And that what you think was a bargain, will end up being other than that.

 

My comments are based on multiple posts I have read from buyers over a long period of time. Unless you are an expert grader I would stay away from such (uncertified) coins.

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Make sure you're looking for problems when you get the coin in hand. I bought a proof Seated quarter from them about 6 months ago... The picture showed "rainbow" toning, problem free surfaces, and advertised "GEM++" in the description. Knowing their reputation, I took a chance and bought the proof Seated quarter. When the coin arrived, I opened the package and to my disappointment (although I kind of expected it) the coin was harshly cleaned. There was a light petina over areas around the stars where you could see someone tried to wipe it away. Hairlines filled most of the obverse (one of the sales reps tried to explain die polish to me... I know what it is and this cleaning was far from it). I wish I took a picture of how the coin actually looked and did a comparison with their auction pictures.

 

Anyway, I contacted GSC and requested a return in a strongly worded email. Despite the nasty email, they were beyond pleasant and even offered to cover my return shipping fees. I guess this is how they win over buyers who are dissatisfied with their purchase. I ended up leaving positive feedback...

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I have never bought anything from Great Southern Coin, but I have read enough negative comments here to dissuade me from doing so. At any rate I only buy tokens and medals raw any more, NOT raw coins, and I only buy those from dealers I know well who have a good return policy.

 

The coin has at least been dipped and may have been cleaned. It looks very bright in the photo, and it has some marks of residue on it that might be a sigh of cleaning. When you clean a coin sometimes some things are so deep into the surface that they don't come out with a stronger and usually deleterious effort.

 

I'm not a Liberty Seated coin expert, but from I can gather the 1859-S half dollar is very scarce in Mint State. This leads to the question, "Why isn't this coin certified?" If it really is a no problem Mint State coin, getting it certified would nail it, and insure the seller of getting a good price.

 

These are the kinds of questions you need to ask yourself whenever you consider buying a raw coin that is purported to be high grade for the date, mint and perhaps variety combination.

 

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My guess is that in hand, the coin will look worse and/or display evidence of cleaning. And that what you think was a bargain, will end up being other than that.

 

My comments are based on multiple posts I have read from buyers over a long period of time. Unless you are an expert grader I would stay away from such (uncertified) coins.

 

+ 1

 

Their images are doctored to hide problems on the coin . The coin is probably an Au details coin.

Many years ago I purchased coins from them – My advise stay away from their raw stuff.

 

Edited by Mark T
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The coin is not going to be met with warm reception simply because it is a GSC coin.

 

There is a very heavy presence of negativity here on this site (possibly on other sites as well) toward that seller on eBay, either by personal first hand experience or by sheep following the heard, of which I am not sure which is accurate. Maybe both.

 

Every new member of this site, that happens to buy a GSC coin and then posts about it is indoctrinated into the anti GSC hate club. It may very well be a warranted assessment but I find it hard to believe that out of the 107949 total transactions this company has auctioned on eBay they can really be quite as bad as some would lead you to believe when they only have 12 negatives in the last 12 months and a 100% rating.

 

The proponents of the 'watch out for GSC' mentality will make claims that they only have 12 negatives since they sell only to naive and new to the hobby buyers, or worse than that, the buyers are experienced and knowledgeable but fail to leave negative feedback either out of shame or sheer laziness.

 

Others will make the claim that if the coin were any good in the first place then they would have already had it in a certified holder by one of the major TPG's, as if people do not routinely sell problem free un-slabbed coins for that reason alone. If one were to follow that line of reasoning then the entire Eric P. Newman collection was junk coins since "any good coin has already found a holder".

 

I will say that I know for a fact that if you receive that coin and are not happy with it then they will take it back with absolutely no attempts to inject guilt or any other questions. They will only tell you how to return the item for a full refund.

 

I do not have any affiliation with that company. I do not know one single person that works for that company. I do not even buy coins from that company. I am only voicing this opinion since I feel that somewhere along the line, someone was wronged by GSC and set forth on a personal vendetta to hurt the company economically in some shape or form.

 

 

The EBAY rating system is a joke. It you think GSC does not sell problem coins and that their photos represent what the coin truly looks like in hand then buy a few of their Raw MS ++++ or whatever they call them now and see what you think.

 

 

 

http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=greatsoutherncoin&Dirn=Received+by&ref=home

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mark T
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This coin was graded as "1905 S $5 GOLD Liberty Half Eagle NEAR GEM BU"

 

When I bought this coin from GSC I had just started to collect again so the obvious cleaning that I can see now in the GSC picture was not as obvious to me back then . I have other examples but this is the only GSC photo I can find from the original EBAY listing. The Coin with Luster is the GSC photo , the coin with no Luster is mine. Granted my coin was a scan however the coin in hand had no real luster becuase of how it was harshly cleaned.

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144084.jpg.d0126bb6dc02cc8f5e63ea154e4a8231.jpg

144085.jpg.4c60fd5152dbfae086f8369944ac144c.jpg

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Smart sellers of problem and/or over-graded coins, know how to handle buyers who know how to grade/evaluate coins. And those buyers are provided hassle--free returns, which helps keep the sellers' feedback scores very high.

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I suppose this will be an additional test of what they sell, but something told me it was too good to be true. I bought it anyway and even talked with my girlfriend about how this couldn't be real because if I could get something like this for such a deal why wasn't everyone else doing it? I knew there would be a catch and here it is... although I will just have to wait and see. I guess I'll have to figure out how to take good close-up coin photos as well. Does anyone have any advice on how to do that? I tried to take a picture of an 1869 1C and it looked terrible up close. Granted I took the picture with my phone of all things. I do have a point-and-shoot at home but nothing better. As for the value of this coin, does cleaning significantly reduce value? I might be on my own but I can't stand looking at old pennies/copper coins. They are difficult to view even in bright light.

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I have a lot to learn, so can you start with telling me what you mean by "details" coin? I get the about uncirculated part but to what "details" are you referring?

 

Details means there is a problem with the coin - in this coins case it is most likely a cleaning . You paid $750 for the coin , I suggest when you get it in take it to a local dealer for assessment. If you want to spend the money and send it to NGC or PCGS for a grade I suggest you get GSC to give you an extended return.

As I said prior I think this looks like an AU details coin.

Going forward I suggest you stick to certified coins – because you are new to this you are an easy target for all the overgraded problem stuff on EBAY.

 

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Alright, thanks for the advice, do I just message GSC and ask for the extended return? Im new to ebay as well. It is still exciting to try and get a "deal" too, so I might not adhere perfectly to your advice! Im not betting my mortgage and have some tolerance for loss. It seems like I might just be getting for what I paid, instead of getting a deal, and I am OK with that too. I paid $705, Im not sure where you got the $750 (curious?). I do plan on sending it to NGC for grading. I just bought the premium membership last night so I get 5 "early bird" submittals with it. Another reason why I have less than 10 posts. I feel like I can't learn what I need to know fast enough...

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Alright, thanks for the advice, do I just message GSC and ask for the extended return? Im new to ebay as well. It is still exciting to try and get a "deal" too, so I might not adhere perfectly to your advice! Im not betting my mortgage and have some tolerance for loss. It seems like I might just be getting for what I paid, instead of getting a deal, and I am OK with that too. I paid $705, Im not sure where you got the $750 (curious?). I do plan on sending it to NGC for grading. I just bought the premium membership last night so I get 5 "early bird" submittals with it. Another reason why I have less than 10 posts. I feel like I can't learn what I need to know fast enough...

 

I transposed - meant you paid $705. Get the coin first before , then decide if its worth sending in , then talk to GSC.

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I have a lot to learn, so can you start with telling me what you mean by "details" coin? I get the about uncirculated part but to what "details" are you referring?

 

"Details" means that the coin has the sharpness of a coin in the given grade. For example a coin with "AU details" would have the design sharpness of an AU, but the surfaces have been altered (cleaned), the coin has a big rim bump, or there is a big scratch that disqualifies from getting the straight, "no problem" grade it would otherwise receive. A "details" grade can be applied to any problem coin, except, of course, a counterfeit. How much the "details" description knocks of the value depends upon the severity of the problem.

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Even if I paid $705 for this coin, I should still "run" from it? Did I really get swindled that bad? I suppose I have to wait and see what I get. The coin is being delivered today, which means I will have to pick it up at the Post Office tomorrow. Luckily, I am working from home tomorrow so I can go and get it first thing in the morning and then post pictures.

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Even if I paid $705 for this coin, I should still "run" from it? Did I really get swindled that bad? I suppose I have to wait and see what I get. The coin is being delivered today, which means I will have to pick it up at the Post Office tomorrow. Luckily, I am working from home tomorrow so I can go and get it first thing in the morning and then post pictures.

 

Hypothetically, what would you value the coin at if it were certified as "Unc. Details, Cleaned"?

 

What would you value the coin at if it were certified as "AU Details, Cleaned"?

 

And would you want it under either of the above scenarios?

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Even if I paid $705 for this coin, I should still "run" from it? Did I really get swindled that bad? I suppose I have to wait and see what I get. The coin is being delivered today, which means I will have to pick it up at the Post Office tomorrow. Luckily, I am working from home tomorrow so I can go and get it first thing in the morning and then post pictures.

 

Looking at the Gray Sheet numbers, this coin only looks like a decent deal if it is Mint State. An MS-60 is bid at $650. If the coin really is an MS-60 or 61, $705 is a fair price. An MS-63 is bid at $2,600. Don't expect Santa Claus to come down the chimney.

 

In AU, this coin is only bid at $240. Even if it is an AU-58, the price is often closer to the AU bid than the MS-60 price unless it is one heck of an AU with great eye appeal. In EF or lower, which could be the net grade if this coin is a cleaned AU, you are getting the shaft. EF coins are bid at $150, and the rest of the grades are less than $100.

 

This is one of the games that less than honest dealers have played for as long as I've been a collector. They sell problem coins that look good to novice collectors at "discounted" prices for grades that the coin appears to be. In reality the problem coin is worth a lot less than the price charged.

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The EBAY rating system is a joke. It you think GSC does not sell problem coins and that their photos represent what the coin truly looks like in hand then buy a few of their Raw MS ++++ or whatever they call them now and see what you think.

 

http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=greatsoutherncoin&Dirn=Received+by&ref=home

 

 

 

I never made the claim that GSC has not sold problem coins. There are many other dealers, some on this very board and held in very high esteem, that doctor images and attempt to make the coin look much better than it actually does in hand. There are many dealers on eBay that are vouched for by some heavy hitter players here on this board that also sell raw coins routinely and market them as high MS coins that turn out to not be after all.

 

As to your reference to eBay's feedback system being a joke, that link did nothing but reinforce what is already on their feedback page. A bigger problem than GSC selling coins raw, and what may possibly make the feedback system a 'joke', is someone that expresses dissatisfaction with a purchase from them, and then leaves positive feedback (tylernorton).

 

From your link:

 

12 Negative

26 Neutral

0 Withdrawn (0 removed by eBay)

 

Total: 38

 

Mark, I buy mostly certified and graded coins from the major two TPG's and every now and then take a gamble on a raw coin. Sometimes I am very disappointed and sometimes I am pleasantly surprised when the coin come in looking much better than it did in the pictures. It is the nature of the game when dealing with raw coins from anyone through pictures on the internet; not just GSC.

 

At any rate, I posted my opinion just to let the OP know that most of the people that will weigh in on his purchase are going to be tainted from the start simply because it is a GSC offering. The OP will just have to get the coin in hand and then make a decision as to whether this coin was accurately described or if they are going to be returning it. That is a fact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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My guess is that in hand, the coin will look worse and/or display evidence of cleaning. And that what you think was a bargain, will end up being other than that.

 

My comments are based on multiple posts I have read from buyers over a long period of time. Unless you are an expert grader I would stay away from such (uncertified) coins.

 

+ 1

 

Their images are doctored to hide problems on the coin . The coin is probably an Au details coin.

Many years ago I purchased coins from them – My advise stay away from their raw stuff.

all of the above +1
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If you read what I wrote above this post, I think you come to the conclusion that the chances of this being a good deal or even are fair deal are slim to none.

 

I do not disagree with that Bill. Just as I would feel the odds are against him with nearly any seller of a coin that is "to good to be true", but he is gambling. If he wins then he wins big. Problem is, just like in Vegas, the house always has the advantage.

 

Although Vegas has yet to implement a 'Return Policy'. ;)

 

 

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If you read what I wrote above this post, I think you come to the conclusion that the chances of this being a good deal or even are fair deal are slim to none.

 

I do not disagree with that Bill. Just as I would feel the odds are against him with nearly any seller of a coin that is "to good to be true", but he is gambling. If he wins then he wins big. Problem is, just like in Vegas, the house always has the advantage.

 

Although Vegas has yet to implement a 'Return Policy'. ;)

 

 

In this case I think "the house" has the cards stacked. The only way he wins is if the coin is an MS-62+ or better. I don't think that you could come to that conclusion, not even from their photo.

 

This reminds of the line from a W.C. Fields movie. He sits down to play poker with a mark.

 

The mark asks, "Is this a game of chance?"

 

"No" the great comedian replies, "Not a game of chance at all."

 

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