microscopic nicks and hairline scratches

[Six Mile Rick]

Hi guys (and gals)

 

I am starting to fine tune my grading abilities. As I will be leaning into the proof coin sets next year I will need a computer micro to check for very small nicks and tiny hairlines. Does anyone have a recommendation for a good one to purchase?

 

Thanks----Rick

[coinman_23885]

I use this occasionally to take close ups for personal use to help me in identifying varieties, so maybe this would be helpful to you:

 

http://www.wizardcoinsupply.com/lighthouse-digital-microscope-and-camera-20x-200x.html

[Six Mile Rick]

Kenny,

Thanks for the input!! Yes, I was looking at that earlier this month. As I always order my supplies from Wizard I might add it to the next order of poly flips. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a better choice out there somewhere. With all the professional advice here it makes sense to ask in "MOST CASES"!!

[mr.coin-migration]

AMSCOPE.COM

[bsshog40]

I have a cheap celestron that works ok. I'll bet one that allows some type of controls for the lights would be better though. The celestron lights stay on all the time with no adjustment, sometimes waaaay to much light.

[ldhair]

 

Hi guys (and gals)

 

I am starting to fine tune my grading abilities. As I will be leaning into the proof coin sets next year I will need a computer micro to check for very small nicks and tiny hairlines. Does anyone have a recommendation for a good one to purchase?

 

Thanks----Rick

[JKK]

A coin microscope is excellent for cherrypicking, assessing cleaning and getting a real good look at error factors in general. However, you may want to remember that the defintion of PR-70 includes no flaw detectable with a 5x loupe. PR-69 includes one nearly insignficant flaw detectable with a 5x loupe. Below PR-69, flaws and marks must be detectible with the naked eye to count for grading. And I hardly need to add that, except for the very newest coin issues, those grades are elusive. If you haven't spent several minutes louping a coin area by area with great care, you can't reasonably give it those grades.

 

In other words, you don't grade with a microscope. You do forensics with it. You learn the difference between machine doubling and a true double die, ponder repunched mint marks, marvel at or lament the loss of flow lines (and learn exactly how they look), spot cleaning residues and damage, and in general become a much better equipped and sophisticated collector. But you don't grade with it.

 

And trust me, if you try, it'll depress you. That stunning Merc you're sure is an MS-66? Put it at 60x and the fields will look like a bunch of teeny tiny Labrador retrievers went scrabbling across it, digging holes and such.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

A coin microscope is excellent for cherrypicking, assessing cleaning and getting a real good look at error factors in general. However, you may want to remember that the defintion of PR-70 includes no flaw detectable with a 5x loupe. PR-69 includes one nearly insignficant flaw detectable with a 5x loupe. Below PR-69, flaws and marks must be detectible with the naked eye to count for grading. And I hardly need to add that, except for the very newest coin issues, those grades are elusive. If you haven't spent several minutes louping a coin area by area with great care, you can't reasonably give it those grades.

 

In other words, you don't grade with a microscope. You do forensics with it. You learn the difference between machine doubling and a true double die, ponder repunched mint marks, marvel at or lament the loss of flow lines (and learn exactly how they look), spot cleaning residues and damage, and in general become a much better equipped and sophisticated collector. But you don't grade with it.

 

And trust me, if you try, it'll depress you. That stunning Merc you're sure is an MS-66? Put it at 60x and the fields will look like a bunch of teeny tiny Labrador retrievers went scrabbling across it, digging holes and such.

 

All wonderful comments.

 

The first step, is an eye exam by a qualified person.

 

Correcting for optimal vision, including color and depth perception (and yes I know the usual reply is 'I see fine and don't need glasses) is going to be the best tool a person can buy. Inform the Specialist of your hobby and how important it is to you. You may be surprised.

 

[physics-fan3.14]

If you are using a microscope to check for nicks and hairlines, you are doing it wrong.

 

PR-70, the very definition of perfect, means nothing visible under 5x magnification. Using a micrscope will always show flaws.

[coinman_23885]

If you are using a microscope to check for nicks and hairlines, you are doing it wrong.

 

PR-70, the very definition of perfect, means nothing visible under 5x magnification. Using a micrscope will always show flaws.

 

I was assuming that he had poor vision and this was why he was asking about the microscope. If your vision is 20/20 or so, I agree that a 5x loupe should suffice. On another note, the difference between PF69 and PF70 on moderns (I am assuming that this is what he is interested in) usually doesn't result from obvious nicks or scratches, but very subtle breaks in the cameo contrast.

[Six Mile Rick]

If you are using a microscope to check for nicks and hairlines, you are doing it wrong.

 

PR-70, the very definition of perfect, means nothing visible under 5x magnification. Using a micrscope will always show flaws.

 

I was assuming that he had poor vision and this was why he was asking about the microscope. If your vision is 20/20 or so, I agree that a 5x loupe should suffice. On another note, the difference between PF69 and PF70 on moderns (I am assuming that this is what he is interested in) usually doesn't result from obvious nicks or scratches, but very subtle breaks in the cameo contrast.

 

Actually yes my vision is not all that great. But as I pick 2 or 3 of each coin for submission it may beat the costs if I were to compare the 3 in the micro to then only need to send one or two of each in for submission. So I'm not grading the coins with the microscope but thinking of using it to cut some bad choices and save a little money. Looking at the high grade proofs it is very hard to tell between the 69UC and 70UC so I thought it might give me a edge and save a few bucks.

 

Thanks for all the comments and knowledge!!

 

Rick

[Six Mile Rick]

I have sent in a few groups of Roosevelt dimes this year and missed the FT designation. Figured I need something to look a little closer than what I have to see the bands directly at the field areas.

[coinman_23885]

I have sent in a few groups of Roosevelt dimes this year and missed the FT designation. Figured I need something to look a little closer than what I have to see the bands directly at the field areas.

 

But was this the result of poor eyesight or a misunderstanding of the strike designation? I know a lot of collectors think that NGC's FT designation is synonymous with PCGS's FB designation, and it is not. With the FB designation, only the horizontal bands need to be split. NGC's FT designation requires this and split vertical torch lines. In other words, NGC's designation is more stringent and accounts for more of the design.

 

Edited to add: Many collectors think that strike designations are always clear cut, but it has been my experience that strike designations are often as subjective as the numerical grading process itself. Inconsistencies may also arise. If you have consistently submitted examples and constantly had a low designation rate, then I would say that perhaps you might be on to something. If it is just a few, this could be normal variance/inconsistency in the application of the designation itself.

[Six Mile Rick]

Kenny,

I have been collecting the Roosevelts for years and am well aware of a true FT graded by NGC. I check the complete torch!! Everyone says, and I believed that 5X to 8X is or should be large enough to grade coins but they must be enlarging the torch and full step areas much larger to know that it is not good enough for the grade heading. It may turn out that if it was at 20X and on the computer screen it would be easier to look at and not make me go blind searching all these dimes and nickels.

I recently sent in a few Jefferson nickels for FS and missed that one by a mile!! I don't have a problem finding the MS67's and 68's ---- When dealing in the dimes and nickels of modern coinage I can't afford to make too many misjudgments as I can sell a MS67FT and there is a profit there but a MS67 is a loss that takes a while for me to overcome. I am getting into the nickels next and it would be nice to be more sure of myself and the coins I submit to NGC!!

Thanks,

Rick