1895-o. What you think?

[Red Llama]

Attached pictures of 1895-o. Hope they come out clear. A well known weak strike and I have my opinion but what you guys think?

[physics-fan3.14]

Looks like a cleaned EF-45. It looks genuine, if that is what you are asking.

 

I wouldn't buy a coin like this raw, either.

[Mark T]

Looks like a cleaned EF-45. It looks genuine, if that is what you are asking.

 

I wouldn't buy a coin like this raw, either.

 

+1

[Red Llama]

Got a 'pre-grade' of AU55. Already bought it.

Stoked

[Deerefan8420]

I don't see this as AU55. I'm leaning more towards EF-45 as was already mentioned. It also looks cleaned in my opinion as well. I hope you didn't pay AU55 money for this coin...

[Red Llama]

Not cleaned (thank god) and got with others so part of packaged deal so hard to judge value of entire thing. Dealer says AU 53 at worst. Def. not 45. Had lot of 95o graded and they are much more generous than with other Morgans.

[FishyOne]

Looks like AU50 Details - Improperly Cleaned. To me it looks either over-dipped and/or wiped. If confirmed genuine, it's a $400 coin.

[Red Llama]

Not cleaned or dipped -that was already confirmed so let's get past that. I own 2 cleaned coins- 93s and one 16d Mercury (old guy who owned it cleaned all his coin to 'make them more presentable'. Was sad and maddening at same time.)

I'm more interested if you think AU53-55 as that is where we are at. I lean towards 53 but can hope 55.

[Deerefan8420]

In my opinion, the fields look too dull to be an AU coin. I own a couple of cleaned coins as well and the hairlines to the left of Liberty's chin look like a possible sign on cleaning. I wouldn't be surprised if this coin came back as a details coin because of the scratch that extends through Liberty's neck and chin.

[Red Llama]

I worried about that as well but had to take to Dutchman's and not cleaned. If I can't trust the only rare coin dealer in my state then I'm in big trouble.

 

[ldhair]

Improperly Cleaned. It will never grade.

[wheat'swheats]

I worried about that as well but had to take to Dutchman's and not cleaned. If I can't trust the only rare coin dealer in my state then I'm in big trouble.

then you are in big trouble

wheat

[Red Llama]

I wanted a nice thread where people could give their opinions but some people apparently have nothing better to do.

Now if I had not sure if was cleaned I would state that. I said-hay nope got lucky and it was not cleaned. When I took it to Lost Dutchman they confirmed that as I'll admit some of the gentle cleaning I miss.

So when you come on here just to try and look smart and say "It is not cleaned" when we are past that and I have repeated myself now 3 times then I have to ask why you are posting on here in the first place?

[Red Llama]

Wheat-I PM you.

Please do not post on my threads.

Thanks

[wheat'swheats]

I PM you back... Are you a total F O O L, or just acting like you are a mental case. Last Time I checked you asked for opinions and now you have mine. I thought that some people might have been just a tad rough on you but now I realize it doesn't matter because you are just too stupid to take anyone's advise, and you can also take your PM and stick it where the sun does not shine.

wheat

[Red Llama]

I replied:

"No I just do not like repeating myself and people like you come in and try and act smart-well we all get stuff wrong or have gaps in our knowledge but do not be so confident in what you say and act so smug.

This particular coin was not cleaned. Period.

Now for some reason you seem to take that personally. It is hard to grade coins and especially with just 2 pictures.

I got it and was hoping for AU50. The people who do this for a living and have nothing to gain looked at it. Put it under loupe and said "53-55". They have nothing to gain and they have yet to be wrong-as that is their job and they have nothing to gain by telling lies. If they are wrong then that hurts their reputation.

So learn to calm down. "

[Deerefan8420]

You asked for opinions and when you got the opinions you asked for, you got very combative. Grading through photographs is not an exact science. For a collector or grader to properly grade a coin, they need to have it in hand. And by the photos you provided, the coin has the appearance of a coin that has been cleaned, whether it was lightly cleaned or harshly cleaned, it still shows signs of cleaning. It is very easy to get caught up in the potential to buy a condition rarity coin for a substantially lower price than what the current fair market value is. I've done it myself and I speak from that experience. The strongest advice I can give you if that when you ask for advice or opinions, be ready to accept those opinions, whether they are positive or negative. But to come here and bash fellow members is the easiest way to not receive any further help or assistance. There is a vast amount of knowledge here. No one here is out for personal attacks.

[Red Llama]

Very, very true and I explained all that in the message wheatwheat. He does this all the time and tries and act real big and bad as thought he is final word. This particular coin was not cleaned. He seems to not be able to accept facts.

 

Why would I lie?

Why would a rare coin shop lie to me? I did not buy from them-do not buy retail (EVER). Why lie?

 

As I said earlier -I do have a cleaned Morgan. I bought a 93s and hoped it was not but knew when got it was. I basically paid retail value for it. Tough-that happens.

Guy is just a fool who wants to seem smart.

[Red Llama]

Not that it even matters but I bought this with many other coins with a pricing of about $350 on it. Not exact as like I said-it was part of a lot of coins. I got a good deal.

This is collecting-not reselling and people like wheat are obsessed with money

[Deerefan8420]

Actually, Wheat is a very smart collector and seems to know a great deal more than me or you. Although I have not had any personal dealings or communications with him, I've read many of hia posts and replies to posts and he always brings up great points and has shown that he has a knowledge of what he speaks of. If it was only him who was saying that your coin was cleaned, then I could see your point. But everyone here has provided their opinion that this coin has been cleaned.

[Red Llama]

He can be smart but rude I do not appreciate or tolerate. I have explained to him it was not cleaned. If I was not 100% sure and had not both former graders at Lost Dutchman who looked at it tell me that it was not cleaned then I would say "You guys probably right" but in this case that happened. I explained that and he wants to try and save face and double down.

I've been wrong many times on coins. There have been some I was sure where light dipped and were not. Been some I thought were not cleaned and I get that awful feeling when I open up the package and see "Details" in the holder and start my day off on a small bad note.

Now if it was my opinion against his I would default to his and others but when I say over and over, "Hay not cleaned. Awesome right" and he comes back with smart comments about he has been doing this 50 years and he knows it was cleaned. Well to be blunt-shut up.

[wdrob]

If you think it is a 53 or a 55 then that means that you are happy with your coin. That is a good thing. The entire "Coin Collection" hobby is about enjoying your coins. You seem happy with your coin so don't worry so much with the opinion of everyone else. If it bothers you to have so many opinions that go against yours then just refrain from asking.

 

These folks in here try to give their opinions, I would hope, without an agenda. They have told me before, just as they are doing you right now, that a Walking Half Dollar was absolutely cleaned without any doubt, and further, it would never make it into anything other than a details grade holder. They even went so far as to say I was just bitter in another thread because they bashed my coin so bad and that his just happened to be a "Quality Coin" and mine was .

 

The thing is; I believed in that coin I had and went ahead an submitted it. Came back an MS65 in an NGC holder. Not once did anyone ever make another comment about that coin. Not so much as wow..... I really thought it would never make it. That is the way they roll here and if you can't handle that then just don't post asking about any further grades. I don't.

 

Main thing is if you are happy with your coin then that is all that matters but when you bring others in and try and get them happy about your coin it just is not going to happen unless you are on your knees and in the click. So be happy.

 

[FishyOne]

Not cleaned or dipped -that was already confirmed so let's get past that. I own 2 cleaned coins- 93s and one 16d Mercury (old guy who owned it cleaned all his coin to 'make them more presentable'. Was sad and maddening at same time.)

I'm more interested if you think AU53-55 as that is where we are at. I lean towards 53 but can hope 55.

 

Speaking only of wear, AU53 would be as high as I would go. I think it's a long-shot for grading problem-free though. Some might call the surfaces market-acceptable even if they are not original so it's a push. I'd go $400 on it either way.

[Red Llama]

wdrob-Walking Liberty are hard to grade I think. I only have a few in 65. There have been so many I think are going to make it and I get 60 or 61. Thanks for your post though and you as well fishyone.

I honestly was pegging it at 50 give or take. What they said and I've heard before is 95o is not graded so 'hard' because such a very weak strike. You guys ever heard that? They think, and you guys can judge by pictures I guess, that this one was a weaker strike already.

I've honestly been skeptical of the "weak strike' thing for some time. Like 89o are weak strikes and they seem to grade it 'equally'

 

[wdrob]

I can look in the ANA Grading Guide and see if it mentions anything about it and if so I will reply with an edit to this post.

 

Follow Up: It say's "New Orleans Issues are often found weakly struck, particularly above the ear on the obverse and the eagle's breast on the revers. Dates most prone to such weakness are those from 1887 to 1897."

 

David Bowers; A Guide Book To Morgan Silver Dollars, 2nd Edition.

 

 

[Coindude]

I'm at 50 but I too think it has been cleaned.

[coinman_23885]

Looks like a cleaned EF-45. It looks genuine, if that is what you are asking.

 

I wouldn't buy a coin like this raw, either.

 

+1

 

Yep.

[coinman_23885]

Got a 'pre-grade' of AU55. Already bought it.

Stoked

 

What is a "pre-grade"?

[coinman_23885]

I worried about that as well but had to take to Dutchman's and not cleaned. If I can't trust the only rare coin dealer in my state then I'm in big trouble.

 

Why don't you submit the coin to our host? Anyone and I mean anyone can become a coin dealer or at least sport that title. The fact that one sells coins for a living (my definition of a dealer) does not mean that one is an expert in coin grading. To the contrary, I have seen several brick and mortar shops locally that are selling coins that are overgraded and cleaned which they grade at higher grades.

 

Edited to add: In fairness, however, my example assumes that they do not know better; it could just be fraud but after conversing with them ,they seem clueless at times when I have asked some basic questions unrelated to any financial transaction.

[wdrob]

Why don't you submit the coin to our host? Anyone and I mean anyone can become a coin dealer or at least sport that title.

 

Kenny,

Don't you have to meet certain qualifications in order to be considered a dealer with the two major TPG's?

 

To become an authorized dealer (PCGS)

 

And NGC: " Q. I am a coin dealer. How can I become an NGC Authorized Dealer?

 

A. Contact NGC Customer Service (1-800-NGC-COIN) and request a dealer application. It is required that you have been in the business of numismatics for at least one year and can provide at least four numismatic references."

 

I may not have understood what point you were making but if it was in reference to bulk submissions and discounted rates then I think you have to be an Authorized Dealer. No?