Interesting read about a Heritage Auction

[MorganMan]

Not judging, but I wonder what would have happened if this was a coin that was rumored to be stolen?

 

Bones

 

MM

[Tradedollarnut]

Very cool

[MorganMan]

Followup to the story:

 

Bye Bye Dino Bones

 

MM

[James_OldeTowne]

Followup to the story:

 

Bye Bye Dino Bones

 

MM

Fantastic!

 

But I wonder when the U.S. government will return stolen land to native American nations....

[johnny9434]

Followup to the story:

 

Bye Bye Dino Bones

 

MM

Fantastic!

 

But I wonder when the U.S. government will return stolen land to native American nations....

they deserve a whole lot of it back. jmo

[Conder101]

Not judging, but I wonder what would have happened if this was a coin that was rumored to be stolen?

The same thing, I've been at an auction where it happened. It dealt with a 1970 Canadian dollar struck in gold. Right before the sale the Secret Service stepped in and confiscated it upon the request of the Canadian government as being stolen property. Earlier this year at the NY international sale two coins were seized and at least one arrest were made for illegal importation of coins claimed to have been illegally exported.

[MorganMan]

Followup to the story:

 

Bye Bye Dino Bones

 

MM

Fantastic!

 

But I wonder when the U.S. government will return stolen land to native American nations....

 

The Government would hire some fancy lawyer who said he wanted to see the deed to the land. Then after none was shown, he would say it was never "legally" theirs!

 

Do not hold your breath till this country practices what it preaches...

 

MM

[gmarguli]

How exactly can this be of a "cultural interest of an entire nation" when all that happened was some animal fell over and died 70 million years before this country ever existed?

 

This isn't like a tomb in Egypt being looted, this is just some dead and buried animal that happened to lie inside your modern borders. Yet another example of our spineless government bending over to please others without regard for its own citizens.

[World Colonial]

More often than not, I would expect these "cultural relics" and "national treasures" to end up getting sold by some corrupt government bureaucrat and the proceeds ending up in their Swiss bank account anyway. Another example of sentimentalist claptrap not making a dime's worth of difference.

[James_OldeTowne]

I'd guess that what comes out of the ground in Mongolia should fall under the jurisdiction of Mongolia. Otherwise, what's to prevent someone from going to Zimbabwe and digging up and taking away diamonds, which are after all just rocks?

[World Colonial]

I'd guess that what comes out of the ground in Mongolia should fall under the jurisdiction of Mongolia. Otherwise, what's to prevent someone from going to Zimbabwe and digging up and taking away diamonds, which are after all just rocks?

 

I do not believe it is that clear for a few reasons.

 

First, despite that those who make these rules either pretend they know where all of these artifacts came from or that it is even possible to know, they do not and it isn't. There are many "relics" (some which are not even relics at all) where no one can know the source or where it was obtained.

 

Second as I believe you agree, some of these items were produced and intended for use and ownership outside the borders of the territory where they originated. Yet, the insufficiently_thoughtful_persons making these rules either ignore that altogether or leave open the possibility (likelihood in my opinion) that someone in the future will choose to apply them in the future in a completely arbitrary and capricious manner with no real recourse to the current owners.

 

The most ridiculous examples of this are (purportedly since I do not know the specifics) with ancient coins but as .I believe I have seen comments here on this subject before, it could in theory be applied to any or at least many other coins also. But the same applies to any other number of artifacts such as pottery.

 

If you have ever been to a museum such as the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC, they have Greek vases on display. I find it hard to believe that an item such as this was not produced for export yet I would expect that these rules would apply even more to this than any coin.

 

Lastly, I do not agree that simply because an artifact is from a particular territory than they are necessarily entitled to it either. Let's take the Rosetta Stone which is on display at the British Museum in London. They stole it from the French who supposedly stole it from the Ottoman Turks who along with their predecessors could not be bothered to find it for about 2000 years. I say "supposedly" because the Ottoman Turks were invaders just like the British and so were the Ptolemaic Greeks who created it in the first place. The "Egyptians" in Egypt, many of them are no more Egyptian than you or I am. They are mostly Arabs.

 

So the questions is, why should the Egyptian Islamic government of today have a right to the Rosetta Stone anymore than the British? Both are invaders and occupiers and neither really has a legitimate claim to it unless someone wants to arbitrarily "grandfather" their theft. We know that this is what happens all the time but in this instance, it is based upon political correctness because to the modern populist demagogue, any theft by former European colonial powers is "evil" while all of these supposed "victims" are noble and honorable. This, even though the leaders who are intended to be the custodians of these artifacts are disproportionately a bunch of scumbags. I believe the British have been pressured to return it to Egypt and I would tell them to "stuff it".