NGC Certified "Restrike" Confederate Cents - What do the quotes mean?

[Zoins]

I recently ran across this while searching for Confederate coins. The NGC cert says it's a "Restrike" in quotes. Does anyone know what "Restrike" means here?

 

I'm guessing these aren't struck from the original dies because those shattered and were cancelled when John W. Haseltine was making his restrikes. After Robert Bashlow obtained the dies, he resurfaced them and made some transfer dies to strike his versions. He also donated the original dies and his dies to the Smithsonian so they should still have both sets of cancelled dies. Were the dies for the 2011 pieces (a) transferred from the original dies while fixing the die cracks and cancellation marks, (b) created from transfer from existing coins, © created as an entirely new creation without a transfer from any existing pieces?

 

[crypto79-migration]

The whole premises of these is shaky and that's talking about the originals. There have been so many copies of the fantasy pieces made that have little connection mechanically back to the "original" coins form the 1870s that the word tribute would probably work better. The problem is people know this and realize they wouldn't resonate with collectors which would effect their bottom line, much the same reason that Danial Carr doesn't put the word copy on his coins.

 

As for the originals there isn't any provable connection to the civil war, the south or even the 1860s. All that is really provable is that in the 1870s a coin dealer came up with some inventory made near by his shop by a drunk and he happened to have all of them to sell. By a community that often doesn't trust a dealer to appraise an old ladies late husband's collection and make a fair offer, they put a lot of faith in quite an incredible story with no facts or logic to back it up that did nothing but make him money. I have never understood why these were just accepted.

 

Those new ones looked computer modeled after something. Not sure if an old die or coin was scanned but it appears to be completely modern

[RWB]

The item you pictured is a modern reproduction. It was not struck from either original or mechanical transfer dies. It is a tourist or souvenir piece, much like most California "gold" tokens.

[Alan Glasser]

I have a "restrike" also. I don't know when or why it was issued...for tourists at historic sites?...to commemorate a battle?..who knows. But here it is...I wonder why the denomination is in fraction form.

 

Alan MA AL...and I found THIS interesting: http://www.rebelstatescurrency.com/bashlow.html

 

 

 

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[crypto79-migration]

I have a "restrike" also. I don't know when or why it was issued...for tourists at historic sites?...to commemorate a battle?..who knows. But here it is...I wonder why the denomination is in fraction form.

 

Alan MA AL...and I found THIS interesting: http://www.rebelstatescurrency.com/bashlow.html

 

 

That website is just reprinting the old legend, it just goes to show you how shady the originals are.

 

A decade after the war, a broke drunk die maker comes up with a story of an unnamed soldier who traveled all the way north to commission a penny ( If only they had a penny they would have won the war?) even though fractional currency was prevalent. The no name person pays and then never returns to take delivery and low and behold a coin dealer finds them just when the county was going trough a revival of interest and a wave of nostalgia in the war and traveling shows were very popular.

 

At best they were privately made tokens commissioned by a southern sympathizer and at worst and more likely they were commercially norther made (after the fact) fantasy pieces made to profit off of the romanticized view of the up start/failed south by an opportunistic coin dealer to fill a hole in his market as there were only a couple of legitimately made coins by the south with distinctive designs and they were all but noncollectable.

 

All the examples made after that were just people trying to fill demand for civil war relics in a hobby that has very few but great demand. They go to great lengths to try and tie them back to something war but its all just marketing, and where there is great demand the market will try to find a way to fill it.

[johnny9434]

nice ummm coin. you wouldnt have a pic of the reverse would ya?

[cpm9ball]

The item you pictured is a modern reproduction. It was not struck from either original or mechanical transfer dies. It is a tourist or souvenir piece, much like most California gold tokens, and only intended to part the sucker from his cash.

 

Presumably, the promoter paid to have the special label used.

 

(thumbs u

[Zoins]

nice ummm coin. you wouldnt have a pic of the reverse would ya?

 

Here's the obverse and reverse for the platinum strike. There are a few diagnostics which make this look different to me, including position of the date and font. Also note the Smithsonian Institute "SI" initials under the T in CENT on the reverse. If these aren't from the original dies or a mechanical transfer, it's interesting that they don't need COPY on it. Does this mean anyone can strike a fantasy without the HPA's COPY mark as long as they put something like their own initials on it?

 

 

It seems like the Smithsonian has been making modern versions of a number of items lately (1849 pattern double eagle, 1876 union, etc.). It's an interesting take on their stewardship of history. Perhaps there will be a "Smithsonian Mint" some day.

 

The images are from Great Collections but for some reason I can't get their image URLs to work here.

[Zoins]

I have a "restrike" also. I don't know when or why it was issued...for tourists at historic sites?...to commemorate a battle?..who knows. But here it is...I wonder why the denomination is in fraction form.

 

Alan MA AL...and I found THIS interesting: http://www.rebelstatescurrency.com/bashlow.html

 

 

 

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That 1/100 is pretty interesting Al. I wonder when those were made.

[World Colonial]

I was not aware of this information. I had always understood that these "orginals" were made by the same person and at the same time as the 1861 CSA "original" half dollar and that both were patterns for proposed CSA coinage..

 

Whether the latter coin was actually a pattern or something else, based upon my current understanding, I consider it one of the most significant US coins, using a broad definition of that term. I would rather have it than practically any other US coin, regardless of the fact that I understand that none of the four known are better than a VF.

 

If these "original" cents are something else which is what I understand from your post, then while I think they are interesting curiosity pieces, they do not deserve to sell for the six figures I recall as the last sales price and they are not significant at all.

 

As for the "coin" which is the subject of the OP, I do not see that item as being anything more significant than the "restrikes" of the Kellogg & Co $50 and the Baldwin "Horse Rider" $10 struck by the GMM. And I do not see why NGC would grade them either.

[Conder101]

I would rather have it than practically any other US coin, regardless of the fact that I understand that none of the four known are better than a VF.

The worst of the four is a VF., the other three are significantly better.

[JIM F.]

I have a "restrike" also. I don't know when or why it was issued...for tourists at historic sites?...to commemorate a battle?..who knows. But here it is...I wonder why the denomination is in fraction form.

 

Alan MA AL...and I found THIS interesting: http://www.rebelstatescurrency.com/bashlow.html

 

 

 

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That 1/100 is pretty interesting Al. I wonder when those were made.

 

I have one just like it. I assume it is a fantasy piece. I paid something like 5 bucks back in the 1990's. No idea when it was made.

[Conder101]

That one is a fantasy piece intended for sale as a souvenir at Civil War tourist sites. Usually sold as part of a packet of other fantasy "Confederate coins", 1/10 1/25, a fake CSA half dollar and dollar. Sometimes seen with a fantasy $20 CSA "coin".

[James_OldeTowne]

The item you pictured is a modern reproduction. It was not struck from either original or mechanical transfer dies. It is a tourist or souvenir piece, much like most California gold tokens, and only intended to part the sucker from his cash.

 

Presumably, the promoter paid to have the special label used.

(thumbs u

(thumbs u (thumbs u

 

If these aren't from the original dies or a mechanical transfer, it's interesting that they don't need COPY on it. Does this mean anyone can strike a fantasy without the HPA's COPY mark as long as they put something like their own initials on it?

It is not a copy of a Federally issued coin. I don't think a "COPY" mark is required for pure fantasy tokens.

[World Colonial]

I would rather have it than practically any other US coin, regardless of the fact that I understand that none of the four known are better than a VF.

The worst of the four is a VF., the other three are significantly better.

 

Thanks, as in what condition? Do you know what the current estimated value is now?

[Conder101]

It is not a copy of a Federally issued coin. I don't think a "COPY" mark is required for pure fantasy tokens.

If you go by a strict interpretation of the HPA then yes they do need to be marked.

[Zoins]

I have a "restrike" also. I don't know when or why it was issued...for tourists at historic sites?...to commemorate a battle?..who knows. But here it is...I wonder why the denomination is in fraction form.

 

Alan MA AL

 

Alan,

 

Check out this Confederate States of America (CSA) 1/10 Fractional that just closed on eBay for $105.05 with 11 bidders on 31 bids. There does seem to be some demand for CSA fractionals.

[Conder101]

Especially among people who don't know what they are buying.

[Zoins]

Especially among people who don't know what they are buying.

I can actually understand that one somewhat if someone really wanted it and doesn't think it will appear in that condition very often.

 

Here's one I think fits your scenario well: 1961 Fort Sumter Confederate Half Dollar. Of course, the two top bidders were probably going after it for the patina. Winner: $152.50, Underbidder: $150, Show: $25. Ouch.