Grandfather's 1893-S Morgan dollar in raw Gem condition :).

[morganguru]

Here is the Ebay listing

Ebay 1893-S

 

The same coin graded MS67 by NGC sold in Aug. 2011 by Heritage. Isn't this copyright infringement? Sounds like it to me.

Heritage NGC MS67 1993-S

 

I'm confused, Granpy owned the NGC 93-S and the heir decided to crack it out and use the Heritage pics? I wonder what the buyer will receive. Amazing that the seller thinks he's gonna pull this off. Post your Grandfather's raw 1893-S Morgan in Gem BU, surely everyone has one kickin around.

 

 

 

[MarkFeld]

I was in touch with the seller earlier today and tried to warn him he could get in trouble for what he's doing.

 

But even though I let him know I am aware of where he got the images, what the coin sold for and that he can't possibly really have/own it, he went ahead and lied to me, anyway. I told him he was lying to the wrong person - not that there really is a "right" person to lie to.

 

I have also been emailed Ebay and a "friend" of mine has placed a significant bid on the coin.

 

The same seller has three other valuable coins listed and I am confident that he owns none of them, either.

[morganguru]

I was in touch with the seller earlier today and tried to warn him he could get in trouble for what he's doing.

 

But even though I let him know I am aware of where he got the images, what the coin sold for and that he can't possibly really have/own it, he went ahead and lied to me, anyway. I told him he was lying to the wrong person - not that there really is a "right" person to lie to.

 

I have also been emailed Ebay and a "friend" of mine has placed a significant bid on the coin.

 

The same seller has three other valuable coins listed and I am confident that he owns none of them, either.

 

I also emailed the seller and asked for a pic of the NGC slab. I bet the seller is starting to sweat, as it is now north of 65k. It just baffles me how one could think of pulling this off. It's the KING of Morgans for Gods sake and trying to say it's raw. I don't think there is a 93S in Unc. that isn't slabbed. I filed a complaint through Ebay, can't imagine it will run it's course.

[newprepper]

I was in touch with the seller earlier today and tried to warn him he could get in trouble for what he's doing.

 

But even though I let him know I am aware of where he got the images, what the coin sold for and that he can't possibly really have/own it, he went ahead and lied to me, anyway. I told him he was lying to the wrong person - not that there really is a "right" person to lie to.

 

I have also been emailed Ebay and a "friend" of mine has placed a significant bid on the coin.

 

The same seller has three other valuable coins listed and I am confident that he owns none of them, either.

 

I don't think there is a 93S in Unc. that isn't slabbed.

 

I actually have twice as many as the seller, and if anybody is interested, I will sell for what his gets at auctions end, I mean why do I need any?haha

[$ilverHawk]

After reviewing the OP s references it was clear to me that the Ebay seller was using the Heritage pictures in his listing.

 

I sent a message via Ebay to the seller noting that he was using pictures from a Heritage Auction for a 1893-S that sold for $546,000.00. Also informing him that point by point photo authentication would clearly establish the origination of the photos. Additionally noting that the coin was in a NGC slab. Not grandpas raw collection.

 

Waiting a response.

 

Carl

[morganguru]

After reviewing the OP s references it was clear to me that the Ebay seller was using the Heritage pictures in his listing.

 

I sent a message via Ebay to the seller noting that he was using pictures from a Heritage Auction for a 1893-S that sold for $546,000.00. Also informing him that point by point photo authentication would clearly establish the origination of the photos. Additionally noting that the coin was in a NGC slab. Not grandpas raw collection.

 

Waiting a response.

 

Carl

 

Many are waiting for a response. I bet he or she is feeling the heat as it's now at 70.1k. I tried contacting Heritage no answer. I'm sure they would have issue with the listing and so would NGC.

 

EDIT: If you can read this contact Ebay and nuke this listing by filing a complaint. Save someone the PP hassle and preserve the hobby!

[robec1347]

I received a response. He sounds like he is a foreigner.

 

 

Hello No this coin did not come from Heritage Auction, this mine coin i scanned on mine scanner and put it on mine listing. But like i have told other tonite i will be taking more picture of the coin and add them on here so everyone will feel more secured on bidding on this coin. thanks

 

[morganguru]

I received a response. He sounds like he is a foreigner.

 

 

Hello No this coin did not come from Heritage Auction, this mine coin i scanned on mine scanner and put it on mine listing. But like i have told other tonite i will be taking more picture of the coin and add them on here so everyone will feel more secured on bidding on this coin. thanks

 

He's got stuff coming out his ears Bob, no doubt. Right now I'm trying to find the origin of the 09S VDB he has listed. More than likely it's a Heritage pic, humans are creatures of habbit. He used a Heritage pic for the Morgan, more than likely he used one for the VDB. If you have time check out the VDB listing does it look 64BN to you? Is there a way to search MSBN VDB's without joining Heritage?

Scott

[mkman123]

hope the listing gets cancelled!

[Coindude]

You guys are tooooooo tough on this guy. I mean at least you coulda offered him videos of his coin! Located here.

 

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1158&lotIdNo=173001#68166816169

[robec1347]

I received a response. He sounds like he is a foreigner.

 

 

Hello No this coin did not come from Heritage Auction, this mine coin i scanned on mine scanner and put it on mine listing. But like i have told other tonite i will be taking more picture of the coin and add them on here so everyone will feel more secured on bidding on this coin. thanks

 

He's got stuff coming out his ears Bob, no doubt. Right now I'm trying to find the origin of the 09S VDB he has listed. More than likely it's a Heritage pic, humans are creatures of habbit. He used a Heritage pic for the Morgan, more than likely he used one for the VDB. If you have time check out the VDB listing does it look 64BN to you? Is there a way to search MSBN VDB's without joining Heritage?

Scott

 

That looks more like a Stack's photo than one of Heritage's. I didn't see any BN's on Heritage's site that looked like the one on eBay.

[morganguru]

<<That looks more like a Stack's photo than one of Heritage's. I didn't see any BN's on Heritage's site that looked like the one on eBay>>

 

Here is the pic, makes it a bit easier.

I wanna out this guy, save someone the hassle and preserve the hobby. I don't defraud or deceive why should I let this seller!

[morganguru]

The same coin, same seller and probably the original pic.

Link provided my LanceNewmanOCC ATS.

At least we're making progress.

 

previous 09S VDB listing

 

Previous 09S VDB, guess he tweaked the color a bit, you ain't fooling me.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I was in touch with the seller earlier today and tried to warn him he could get in trouble for what he's doing.

 

But even though I let him know I am aware of where he got the images, what the coin sold for and that he can't possibly really have/own it, he went ahead and lied to me, anyway. I told him he was lying to the wrong person - not that there really is a "right" person to lie to.

 

I have also been emailed Ebay and a "friend" of mine has placed a significant bid on the coin.

 

The same seller has three other valuable coins listed and I am confident that he owns none of them, either.

 

I don't think there is a 93S in Unc. that isn't slabbed.

 

I'm quite sure there are at least several dozen that aren't slabbed.

 

Remember, slabbing is really only 25 years old (yes, there were slabs before this, but really it dates to PCGS and NGC), and many, many collections are older than that. Keep in mind as well, a nice BU 93-S would only have been $300-$600 as late as the early 60's, and there are still collections assembled in the 50's-early 80's extant and intact, in an era when counterfeiting was still extremely uncommon (and far more likely on 16-D dimes, for example) and those spending that kind of money were either highly educated themselves, or dealt with highly educated dealers on their behalf.

 

Many collectors see slabbing as only a necessary evil when and if they are selling.

 

Slabbing made the rare coin market much more accessible to a lot more people (and as a result, made a lot more people take a lot less time to educate themselves before buying.)

 

Just the nature of the field.

 

 

[morganguru]

<<a nice BU 93-S would only have been $300-$600 as late as the early 60's,>>

 

1964 RB lists a 1893S in Unc. @ $1500. That point is meaningless, the pic in the listing is that of a Heritage auction, without question. One of two things the whole thing is a fraud, or the owner decided to crack out the 93S and sell it raw using the Heritage pic. The listing has ended and the seller promised more pics. If he or she doesn't possess it additional pics can't be produced It's a BS listing I know it. you know it and the seller knows it.

[MarkFeld]

The same coin, same seller and probably the original pic.

Link provided my LanceNewmanOCC ATS.

At least we're making progress.

 

previous 09S VDB listing

 

Previous 09S VDB, guess he tweaked the color a bit, you ain't fooling me.

 

The 1909-S VDB image looks like a possible Coinfacts photo to me, though I could not find it there. I am not a subscriber, however, so perhaps there are additional images of that date available to subscribers?

[$ilverHawk]

<<a nice BU 93-S would only have been $300-$600 as late as the early 60's,>>

 

1964 RB lists a 1893S in Unc. @ $1500. That point is meaningless, the pic in the listing is that of a Heritage auction, without question. One of two things the whole thing is a fraud, or the owner decided to crack out the 93S and sell it raw using the Heritage pic. The listing has ended and the seller promised more pics. If he or she doesn't possess it additional pics can't be produced It's a BS listing I know it. you know it and the seller knows it.

 

I also noticed that the 1893-S listing was taken down. I did get a reply stating that more pictures would be posted can't post pics without a listing. I also noted from his auction history that he has listed and sold other circulated 1893-S Morgans.

 

The 1909-S VDB listing is still up.

 

Carl

[RockMyAmadeus]

<<a nice BU 93-S would only have been $300-$600 as late as the early 60's,>>

 

1964 RB lists a 1893S in Unc. @ $1500.

 

And in the March 1962 issue of The Numismatist, Harry W. Bason offered an Unc example for sale for $500.

 

1964 isn't really "the early 60's." Everything changed after the Fall, 1962 Treasury discovery.

 

My point had nothing to do with the current auction; just pointing out that there are likely several to several dozen unslabbed Unc 93-S Morgans in existence.

 

That the listing in question is a complete fraud, I have little doubt.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

[JIM F.]

They 1909-S listing is here

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-S-VDB-LINCION-WHEAT-PENNY-VERY-NICE-COIN-/320987573482?_trksid=p4340.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D13%26meid%3D2255113671845275334%26pid%3D100012%26prg%3D1014%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D320987565167%26

 

 

[MarkFeld]

They 1909-S listing is here

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-S-VDB-LINCION-WHEAT-PENNY-VERY-NICE-COIN-/320987573482?_trksid=p4340.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D13%26meid%3D2255113671845275334%26pid%3D100012%26prg%3D1014%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D320987565167%26

 

 

Thanks, but are looking for the legitimate listing that the Ebay seller took that image from, not the Ebay listing you linked.

[morganguru]

1st 09SVDB Ebay listing

 

Current 09SVDB Ebay listing

 

 

The first listing was ended by the seller on the 21st, with a RB look to the coin. Same coin currently, but the color is tweaked. My gut tells me if he pirated the 93S pics, the current pic of the 09SVDB is also bogus.

 

 

[mtnstyne]

Sold link

 

Actually he sold the coin first on the 12th.

 

 

[morganguru]

Sold link

 

Actually he sold the coin first on the 12th.

 

 

UnFN believable, the seller has tweaked the color in all 3 listings, now I'm really fired up.

[MarkFeld]

1st 09SVDB Ebay listing

 

Current 09SVDB Ebay listing

 

 

The first listing was ended by the seller on the 21st, with a RB look to the coin. Same coin currently, but the color is tweaked. My gut tells me if he pirated the 93S pics, the current pic of the 09SVDB is also bogus.

 

 

If the quote below is your post from the PCGS forum, use this link for Ebay reporting, as it is very easy and allows you to include text

 

"I wanted to explain to them what the deal was but the form didn't allow me to type any text, really irritated right now! "

 

 

[morganguru]

<<If the quote below is your post from the PCGS forum, use this link for Ebay reporting, as it is very easy and allows you to include text

 

"I wanted to explain to them what the deal was but the form didn't allow me to type any text, really irritated right now! ">>

 

Thanks Mark for the link. Lance Newman from ATS hooked me up and I was able to inform Ebay of what's going on. I'm passionate about nuking fraud and deception, for I was burnt for $1k and it still burns. This 09SVDB is north a $500, hopefully it's nuked soon.

Again thanks for your effort and time,

Scott

[MarkFeld]

<<If the quote below is your post from the PCGS forum, use this link for Ebay reporting, as it is very easy and allows you to include text

 

"I wanted to explain to them what the deal was but the form didn't allow me to type any text, really irritated right now! ">>

 

Thanks Mark for the link. Lance Newman from ATS hooked me up and I was able to inform Ebay of what's going on. I'm passionate about nuking fraud and deception, for I was burnt for $1k and it still burns. This 09SVDB is north a $500, hopefully it's nuked soon.

Again thanks for your effort and time,

Scott

 

No problem Scott and I feel the same way that you do.

 

The 1909-S VDB listing probably presents more of a problem for Ebay, because we can't show them where the seller obtained the images, like we could with the 1893-S Dollar. And they usually don't seem to do much of anything over the weekend.

[morganguru]

<<No problem Scott and I feel the same way that you do.

 

The 1909-S VDB listing probably presents more of a problem for Ebay, because we can't show them where the seller obtained the images, like we could with the 1893-S Dollar. And they usually don't seem to do much of anything over the weekend.>>

 

Hopefully Ebay will nuke it based on the fact the same exact coin sold on 12 Sept. How can you resell it twice? What will the winning buyer receive? My gut tells me it's no doubt a pirated pic. Why is it so easy to lie and defraud, rather than mean what you say, say what you mean and look someone in the eye and tell the truth? If I sell you a coin, I'm going to tell you good or bad everything I know about it. I'm gonna photograph it to the best of my ability, as it looks in hand. It was in an Ol' fatty NGC holder then it crossed into a PCGS holder, that's why it has that toning pattern. How difficult is that? This seller knows that several of us know this VDB listing is bogus x a factor of 10. Yet he continues to lie, lie, lie. Nothing I hate more than a liar and a thief.

-Scott

[MarkFeld]

<<No problem Scott and I feel the same way that you do.

 

The 1909-S VDB listing probably presents more of a problem for Ebay, because we can't show them where the seller obtained the images, like we could with the 1893-S Dollar. And they usually don't seem to do much of anything over the weekend.>>

 

Hopefully Ebay will nuke it based on the fact the same exact coin sold on 12 Sept. How can you resell it twice? What will the winning buyer receive? My gut tells me it's no doubt a pirated pic. Why is it so easy to lie and defraud, rather than mean what you say, say what you mean and look someone in the eye and tell the truth? If I sell you a coin, I'm going to tell you good or bad everything I know about it. I'm gonna photograph it to the best of my ability, as it looks in hand. It was in an Ol' fatty NGC holder then it crossed into a PCGS holder, that's why it has that toning pattern. How difficult is that? This seller knows that several of us know this VDB listing is bogus x a factor of 10. Yet he continues to lie, lie, lie. Nothing I hate more than a liar and a thief.

-Scott

 

From Ebay's point of view, the coin could have sold and been returned. That said, I am confident the listing is a scam.

[JIM F.]

<<No problem Scott and I feel the same way that you do.

 

The 1909-S VDB listing probably presents more of a problem for Ebay, because we can't show them where the seller obtained the images, like we could with the 1893-S Dollar. And they usually don't seem to do much of anything over the weekend.>>

 

Hopefully Ebay will nuke it based on the fact the same exact coin sold on 12 Sept. How can you resell it twice? What will the winning buyer receive? My gut tells me it's no doubt a pirated pic. Why is it so easy to lie and defraud, rather than mean what you say, say what you mean and look someone in the eye and tell the truth? If I sell you a coin, I'm going to tell you good or bad everything I know about it. I'm gonna photograph it to the best of my ability, as it looks in hand. It was in an Ol' fatty NGC holder then it crossed into a PCGS holder, that's why it has that toning pattern. How difficult is that? This seller knows that several of us know this VDB listing is bogus x a factor of 10. Yet he continues to lie, lie, lie. Nothing I hate more than a liar and a thief.

-Scott

 

You may be right, however, the original buyer may have not completed the transaction or returned the item. Suggest you be a bit more cautious before jumping to conclusions.

 

 

[jom]

Go get'm boys!

 

jom