1879cc Morgan. I'm sure guesses will be all over the place

[FILTHYHOARD]

Hello again all. First off, let me say that I HATE imaging low luster, low contrast circulated coins (there's the first hint, this is not an UNC coin ) so I apologize for the subpar image.

Secondly, I fully expect the spread of guesses to be about 4 different grades and believe me, I won't be offended by any of your grading guesses. (hint #2, it resides in a problem free NGC holder)

This may not be a "key" date, but it's definitely one of my favorites. Sooooooo, guess the grade on this 1879-cc Morgan

 

[physics-fan3.14]

I am going to abstain from grading or commenting on this one, because I don't want to offend you or be flamed for my ongoing negativity.

[MarkFeld]

I am going to abstain from grading or commenting on this one, because I don't want to offend you or be flamed for my ongoing negativity.

 

You should be able to provide a reasonable grade guess without being negative. We weren't asked if we find the coin to be attractive, etc.

 

When I was a grader, I had to assign grades to coins, whether I loved them or hated them, as long as they weren't no-grades.

 

I'll guess AU50, shot 45.

[coinman_23885]

I don't see a lot of original mint luster, so I'll guess EF40. If there is a significant accumulation of original mint luster left, I would say EF45.

[MarkFeld]

I don't see a lot of original mint luster, so I'll guess EF40. If there is a significant accumulation of original mint luster left, I would say EF45.

 

I agree on the (lack of) luster, but went with the higher grade guess, due to the remaining detail.

[physics-fan3.14]

Mark, I always try to be honest, and people interpret that as negative. I cannot be honest about this coin without coming across as negative.

 

My honest opinion of this coin is net EF, washed, cleaned, or dipped. The light silver color and lack of luster imply a lower grade, and the absence of gunk or any color variation across the coin leads me to think that it has been treated in some way. It appears to have regained a modicum of skin, but the coin is not original. That it is in a problem free holder reflects poorly on NGC, and is exactly the type of coin that requires some amplifying description along with a numerical grade.

[FILTHYHOARD]

I am going to abstain from grading or commenting on this one, because I don't want to offend you or be flamed for my ongoing negativity.

 

I'm a Brooklyn boy Jason and not easily offended. I don't believe you've ever been negative towards me. If anyone else has been offended or is sensitive, perhaps they need to grow a set. Last time I checked we're still in America right? Freedom of speech baby!!

[FILTHYHOARD]

I'll also say that although I own it, I wouldn't exactly call it the most attractive coin in the world either. It is however a tougher date and for the price I paid, it's adequately filling a void in my Morgan set.

[coinman_23885]

...the absence of gunk or any color variation across the coin leads me to think that it has been treated in some way.

 

But I think you are jumping to conclusions without having having enough to base your assumptions on. It is possible for a coin to have circulated and not have gunk or the color variation that you are referencing. Moreover, I see no signs of cleaning whatsoever. The coin may have been dipped at any one time, however. I won't argue with that.

[physics-fan3.14]

...the absence of gunk or any color variation across the coin leads me to think that it has been treated in some way.

 

But I think you are jumping to conclusions without having having enough to base your assumptions on. It is possible for a coin to have circulated and not have gunk or the color variation that you are referencing. Moreover, I see no signs of cleaning whatsoever. The coin may have been dipped at any one time, however. I won't argue with that.

 

I don't necessarily mean cleaning with a brush or polish - I also see no signs of that. But the absolute lack of luster is not consistent with that level of detail remaining. It appears to grade mid-AU based strictly on the amount of wear - a grade which would imply significant luster remaining. FH generally has good pictures, so I am assuming there is no luster hiding that is not showing up in the pictures. Moreover, the traces of discoloration only in the most protected crevices is a good sign of some sort of treatment - notice the areas around the stars and very close to the profile (especially around her hair and cap). If I had to guess, I would say the coin had been buried or had been in an environment where it toned very heavily. It was then dipped repeatedly for a very long time, stripping any life from the coin, leaving an unoriginal and lackluster surface. The color presented here is consistent with my experience with coins like this. It has since regained some skin, enough to be slabbed as problem free - a designation I strongly disagree with based on the pictures.

[Walkerfan]

My initial thought was XF 40--Just based on the degree of friction. I don't find the coin to be unattractive, though. An XF coin will not have the luster of an AU/MS coin. It looks fine to me.

[James_OldeTowne]

Seeing the other grades, I think something must be wrong with me. My guess would be VF-30! I think it's been lightly soap-and-watered or MS70ed in the past or something like that, but not to great detriment. So a net grade of VF-25 wouldn't surprise me.

 

 

[coinman_23885]

...the absence of gunk or any color variation across the coin leads me to think that it has been treated in some way.

 

But I think you are jumping to conclusions without having having enough to base your assumptions on. It is possible for a coin to have circulated and not have gunk or the color variation that you are referencing. Moreover, I see no signs of cleaning whatsoever. The coin may have been dipped at any one time, however. I won't argue with that.

 

I don't necessarily mean cleaning with a brush or polish - I also see no signs of that. But the absolute lack of luster is not consistent with that level of detail remaining. It appears to grade mid-AU based strictly on the amount of wear - a grade which would imply significant luster remaining. FH generally has good pictures, so I am assuming there is no luster hiding that is not showing up in the pictures. Moreover, the traces of discoloration only in the most protected crevices is a good sign of some sort of treatment - notice the areas around the stars and very close to the profile (especially around her hair and cap). If I had to guess, I would say the coin had been buried or had been in an environment where it toned very heavily. It was then dipped repeatedly for a very long time, stripping any life from the coin, leaving an unoriginal and lackluster surface. The color presented here is consistent with my experience with coins like this. It has since regained some skin, enough to be slabbed as problem free - a designation I strongly disagree with based on the pictures.

 

Thanks for your clarification, and I understand your position much better. I too, wouldn't be surprised if the coin had been dipped. I also agree with the an EF grade.

[FILTHYHOARD]

I'm with all of you so far. If this were not my coin, I would probably have guessed any of the guesses that you have given. It's a tough coin to grade and my images may not be the best either. I'll agree the coin has been dipped or "mildly" cleaned at some point but that's not really a surprise (at least not to me). Keep guessing and commenting. I'm honestly enjoying this one

[Dudley the 1st]

Seeing the other grades, I think something must be wrong with me. My guess would be VF-30! I think it's been lightly soap-and-watered or MS70ed in the past or something like that, but not to great detriment. So a net grade of VF-25 wouldn't surprise me.

 

 

I agree. The coin looks to have that " washed " cleaning.

[jgrinz]

XF40 - Nice specimen I like it

 

Some people seem to think a coin is washed or cleaned when all it is

is well used. Thats seems to me to be the case with this coin.

 

I do not see any organized motion in the damaged areas as a result of a cleaning, harsh or otherwise.

Dipped - Probably

 

Of course that is my opinion and usually does differ from others except on

the nights of a "SUPERMOON"

 

 

 

[Mary B]

XF45 cleaned details

[michael]

35+++++ close to 40

[yonico]

VF35

 

[HiHoAudio]

An honest XF40 that was lightly dipped years ago and has healed nicely.

[FILTHYHOARD]

Well, I think there have been enough responses on this one. As predicted, I knew the guesses would be all over the place, so no big shock there. As for everyone who stated that the coin was cleaned. I'm sure it was dipped a long time ago and there are plenty of slabbed coins which have been dipped, all the way up the grading scale but I guess it all comes down to being market acceptable. I also agree it's not the prettiest example, but it does still have a lot of meat left on the bone and IMHO I think i got it at a fair price. So here's how it was graded by NGC

And as always, thanks for your grades/guesses and opinions

[jgrinz]

I think the grade is consistant with a CC morgan, however

I think there should be a lot more 'beef' to the hairline

and that 'red' spot is very distracting to me ...

 

After a closer look it almost looks like an NCS cleaning IMHO

giving it that washed out look ..

 

A good deal is a good deal though so congrats!

 

[BillJones]

As soon as I saw the coin, Choice VF popped into my head. It looks like a close match to the VF coin in the ANA grading guide. From my experiece with this date, which has been limited to Mint State pieces, I don't recall any strike issues with the 1879-CC dollar, so I can't see lowering the standards for strike issues.

[Dudley the 1st]

All I can say is, that's a very generous grade. IMHO.

[MarkFeld]

All I can say is, that's a very generous grade. IMHO.

 

I disagree. Look at how little wear there is on Liberty's cheek, cap and lower hair curls. And ditto for the eagle on the reverse. I think a number of posters put too much emphasis on the hairline and ignored most other areas of the coin.

[James_OldeTowne]

My guess of VF-30 was based on remaining sharpness and a small deduction for cleaning.

[jgrinz]

All I can say is, that's a very generous grade. IMHO.

 

I disagree. Look at how little wear there is on Liberty's cheek, cap and lower hair curls. And ditto for the eagle on the reverse. I think a number of posters put too much emphasis on the hairline and ignored most other areas of the coin.

 

I also ... it probably got the extra 5 points because its a CC ...

 

Is the red spot in the first pictures a camera anomolie as I do not see it in the

full slab picture ...??

[FILTHYHOARD]

Is the red spot in the first pictures a camera anomolie as I do not see it in the

full slab picture ...??

 

That's really weird Mike. There isn't a red mark/dot on the coin at all

Perhaps it was something on the slab, but I did see on the TV show Ghost Adventures, that those type of "orbs" indicate the presence of a spirit.

[jgrinz]

Hmm My K2 was pretty dead so it cant be that

[mhomei]

VF25

VAM 2B Kipton 12

I like it and would be extremely excited about it being in my collection