dan carr oregon commem and new 2oz hologram

[jayman1970]

I dont see any artistry in overstriking a commemorative coin with an altered date!!!

[MarkFeld]

Sorry, guys.

 

"Obvious" means that it can be noticed on sight, without any previous or special knowledge.

 

"the date" requires previous or special knowledge.

 

It is thus not obvious.

 

That's really what it boils down to.

 

Is that your own personal definition of "obvious"?

 

 

Obvious

 

"easily seen, recognized, or understood; open to view or knowledge; evident: an obvious advantage.

2.

lacking in subtlety. "

 

The problem is, "obvious" to whom? And the answer depends upon the audience/viewer/bidder.

[brg5658]

I dont see any artistry in overstriking a commemorative coin with an altered date!!!

 

I agree 100%.

 

DCarr is not doing ANYTHING artistic by using an open domain US Government funded design to overstrike original coins or commemoratives. Instead of "fantasy" pieces they should more accurately be described as "novelty" pieces. I'm sure this will prompt DCarr to compare himself to Andy Warhol and his Campbell's cans again...

 

Now, as for his original designs -- that is art. It's not art that I particularly care for, though a couple of the designs are interesting. If DCarr would stick to his own designs, then I have no problem with people paying whatever they want for his tokens and medals.

[dcarr]

@dcarr,

 

I don't know if you are taking suggestions for any future fantasy pieces or not but if you are, here is my recommendation.

 

A 1923-D or 1930-D Mercury Dime

 

I always wanted a Soviet dime but could never find one. Having a fantasy piece of a well known counterfeit would be very cool.

 

"1923" and "1930" dimes exsist in numerous quantities (just not with a "D").

So I don't plan on making either of those. However, Winged Liberty Head dimes over-struck with dates of "1922", "1932", "1933", and/or "1946" are possible.

 

In a way, my "1909-o" Morgan Dollars were sort of a "tribute" to the vintage "micro-o" counterfeits dated 1896, 1900, 1901, and 1902. On my "1909-o" over-strikes I used exactly the same style (small) "o", with the exact same location and tilt.

 

[MJ]

I dont see any artistry in overstriking a commemorative coin with an altered date!!!

 

Do you like the 2oz hologram coin or any the countless number of original works by Carr? The Fantasy coins number a grand total of a whopping 8 different designs. It's just a small part of what he does........... love them or hate them.

 

MJ

[dcarr]

I dont see any artistry in overstriking a commemorative coin with an altered date!!!

 

I agree 100%.

 

DCarr is not doing ANYTHING artistic by using an open domain US Government funded design to overstrike original coins or commemoratives. Instead of "fantasy" pieces they should more accurately be described as "novelty" pieces. I'm sure this will prompt DCarr to compare himself to Andy Warhol and his Campbell's cans again...

 

Now, as for his original designs -- that is art. It's not art that I particularly care for, though a couple of the designs are interesting. If DCarr would stick to his own designs, then I have no problem with people paying whatever they want for his tokens and medals.

 

Craftmanship ? Yes, I think so. Artistry ? No, not really - unless you want to consider fine craftmanship a form of "art" in itself.

 

If you or anyone prefers to refer to the over-strike coins as "novelty" rather than "fantasy", that is up to you - I'm fine with that.

 

Note that eBay has both a "Exonumia / Fantasy" coin section, as well as a "US Coins / Novelty" coin section. The terms are basically interchageable, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[jayman1970]

I am not implying that the man is not artistic,simply stating that what has been done to this particular piece has nothing to do with artistry.Maybe his original artistic pieces arent doing so good so he borrowed one from the mint!!!

[MJ]

I am not implying that the man is not artistic,simply stating that what has been done to this particular piece has nothing to do with artistry.Maybe his original artistic pieces arent doing so good so he borrowed one from the mint!!!

 

You would be mistaken. FWIW- he just had several sell outs on new original releases. I missed one that I didn't even knew existed. Matter of fact most everything is sold out with just a couple of exceptions.

 

Anyways, I'm done with this thread. Enough for me. ( I reserve the right to change my mind) It is what it is. MJ

[delta]

Would someone please explain to me the hologram effect, as it pertains to the new coins of Dan Carr?

[physics-fan3.14]

Would someone please explain to me the hologram effect, as it pertains to the new coins of Dan Carr?

 

See, these are creative, artistic, and interesting, although I have no idea what "exchange currency" is supposed to be. Why can't you stick to things like this?

 

[e1cnr]

Obvious...? To whom.....? The number of people who would know that this "item" isn't real likely numbers in the thousands, while there are 300+ million people in the United States.

 

How many of these millions would know an authentic Oregon Trail is real? If I took one to McDonalds, would they accept it or call the cops?

 

First off, we're not talking about coinage used in exchange. The commems were never made to be used in normal commerce in the first place. Yes, some of them were (usd in commerce), but every single one of them was designed to be sold at a premium as collector's items, not "spending money."

 

Second, call the cops...? Really....?

 

"Burbank police dept, how may I help you?"

 

"Uh...yeah, I work at McDonald's on Victory and Burbank...this guy is trying to pay for his food with fake coins."

 

"Sir, how do you know these are fake?"

 

"Well...they don't look like real coins."

 

"Ok, sir, we'll be right over."

 

Third..what can you buy at McDonald's for 50 cents....?

 

Yes, it is true that some people spend coins that have significant value over their face. It happens all the time. But people are bombarded all the time about the value of silver and gold, and even if they might not know the specifics, the vast majority of folks know that "old" = "maybe valuable."

 

I did accidentally try to buy part of my McDonalds purchase once with a foreign coin that got mixed with my spending coins - they said ' I can't take this, it is only a half penny' - oops

 

 

 

MJ, I guess I agree with your position

 

Right. it's a foreign coin. "Foreign" being the operative word, here.

 

 

I have never had problems with Canadian coinage at McDonalds, both giving and receiving.

 

There have been numerous instances of McDonalds calling cops for counterfeits

 

McDonalds calls cops

 

McDonalds calls cops

 

McDonalds calls cops

 

McDonalds calls cops

[delta]

Many thanks for posting the colored photo. So is it the different colored reflections, and do those show up in any ordinary light, and what do you suppose was done to the surfaces to achieve that effect?

 

 

 

Would someone please explain to me the hologram effect, as it pertains to the new coins of Dan Carr?

 

See, these are creative, artistic, and interesting, although I have no idea what "exchange currency" is supposed to be. Why can't you stick to things like this?

 

[MJ]

To achieve that effect he uses the blood of baby goats owned by great numismatists.

 

MJ

[MJ]

OK, from his site. Each coin is struck on a single piece of solid silver. The center design is struck first, followed by the striking of the holographic border. The hologram applied to both sides of these coins is struck directly into the silver. No sticker, film, or coating is used. The surface is nothing but pure silver. Note that every coin will have some irregularities in the hologram area - such as ghosting of the numbers and/or random arc lines.

 

You should check out his 100 anniversary Titanic coin. MJ

 

 

[jtryka]

No one could hold the originals and the fantasies next to one another without noticing the difference.

 

Except for the fact that there are no originals with which to compare since they do not exist.

 

They don't? Did someone melt all the 1926, and 1928, and 1936, etc Oregon Halves...?

 

 

THERE ARE NO 1927 DATED OREGON COMMEMORATIVE HALVES, I GUESS WITH THE MENTAL CAPACITY OF A THREE-YEAR-OLD WE HAVE TO SPELL THESE THINGS OUT FOR YOU. person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed-.

[delta]

That info is highly appreciated, thanks, but I still don't understand what sort of process is involved in producing that hologram effect. Is it a secret procedure, something proprietary? Is something added to the coin, a substance of some kind (probably not blood or maybe Dan got his finger caught while Moonlighting), or is it only a physical manipulation of the silver? Pardon me if that is a dumb question.

 

OK, from his site. Each coin is struck on a single piece of solid silver. The center design is struck first, followed by the striking of the holographic border. The hologram applied to both sides of these coins is struck directly into the silver. No sticker, film, or coating is used. The surface is nothing but pure silver. Note that every coin will have some irregularities in the hologram area - such as ghosting of the numbers and/or random arc lines.

 

You should check out his 100 anniversary Titanic coin. MJ

[TwoKopeiki]

There should be a forum for exonumia.

[nk1nk]

Would someone please explain to me the hologram effect, as it pertains to the new coins of Dan Carr?

 

See, these are creative, artistic, and interesting, although I have no idea what "exchange currency" is supposed to be. Why can't you stick to things like this?

 

 

Why can't you stop collecting bust halves and start collecting modern proof sets.

 

 

Nick

[MarkFeld]

No one could hold the originals and the fantasies next to one another without noticing the difference.

 

Except for the fact that there are no originals with which to compare since they do not exist.

 

They don't? Did someone melt all the 1926, and 1928, and 1936, etc Oregon Halves...?

 

 

THERE ARE NO 1927 DATED OREGON COMMEMORATIVE HALVES, I GUESS WITH THE MENTAL CAPACITY OF A THREE-YEAR-OLD WE HAVE TO SPELL THESE THINGS OUT FOR YOU. person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed-.

 

There's no need to be rude, as you were. And I believe his point was that a non-expert could be generally aware of the Oregon Trail commems, but not know them well enough to realize that the 1927 was not struck by the US Mint.

[physics-fan3.14]

That info is highly appreciated, thanks, but I still don't understand what sort of process is involved in producing that hologram effect. Is it a secret procedure, something proprietary? Is something added to the coin, a substance of some kind (probably not blood or maybe Dan got his finger caught while Moonlighting), or is it only a physical manipulation of the silver? Pardon me if that is a dumb question.

 

OK, from his site. Each coin is struck on a single piece of solid silver. The center design is struck first, followed by the striking of the holographic border. The hologram applied to both sides of these coins is struck directly into the silver. No sticker, film, or coating is used. The surface is nothing but pure silver. Note that every coin will have some irregularities in the hologram area - such as ghosting of the numbers and/or random arc lines.

 

You should check out his 100 anniversary Titanic coin. MJ

 

I don't know how dcarr does it, but the process was first used by the Canadian mint a while ago for some of their commemoratives. I'm guessing the technique he uses is similar. I think the Chinese use it, and I'm guessing a few other mints do also, as it is quite interesting to see in hand. The following info is copied from MCM:

 

"'Hologram' coins, introduced by the Royal Canadian Mint in 1999, are arguably some of the most beautiful and interesting coins ever produced. The designs on the coins are produced in such a way that the coin captures the full rainbow spectrum of color from any light source as the coin is tilted back and forth.

 

Produced using a method called 'diffraction grating,' the design is actually a series of microscopic parallel grooves punched into the coin that reflect light at precise angles. The angles are so precise that the viewer sees the whole spectrum of visible light viewing the coin at normal distance. The result is a rainbow effect in selected areas of the coin's design.

 

The design on hologram coins is extremely thin. At less than 1/100th of a millimeter in depth, the lines that produce the beautiful spectrum in the design are too small to see with the naked eye or feel with a fingernail. In fact, when tilted at an angle the coins appear to be blank with no raised detail at all. "

[delta]

Thanks again Physics Fan for more details, I finally think I now understand it, as a microscopic tooling of the surface, to sort of make tiny prisms which when aligned will yield the hologram effect. In the scan you kindly showed, what about the apparent surface design appearing like a finely woven piece of cloth, is that it? Sorry to bother you with follow up questions, I just find this topic fascinating.

 

That info is highly appreciated, thanks, but I still don't understand what sort of process is involved in producing that hologram effect. Is it a secret procedure, something proprietary? Is something added to the coin, a substance of some kind (probably not blood or maybe Dan got his finger caught while Moonlighting), or is it only a physical manipulation of the silver? Pardon me if that is a dumb question.

 

OK, from his site. Each coin is struck on a single piece of solid silver. The center design is struck first, followed by the striking of the holographic border. The hologram applied to both sides of these coins is struck directly into the silver. No sticker, film, or coating is used. The surface is nothing but pure silver. Note that every coin will have some irregularities in the hologram area - such as ghosting of the numbers and/or random arc lines.

 

You should check out his 100 anniversary Titanic coin. MJ

 

I don't know how dcarr does it, but the process was first used by the Canadian mint a while ago for some of their commemoratives. I'm guessing the technique he uses is similar. I think the Chinese use it, and I'm guessing a few other mints do also, as it is quite interesting to see in hand. The following info is copied from MCM:

 

"'Hologram' coins, introduced by the Royal Canadian Mint in 1999, are arguably some of the most beautiful and interesting coins ever produced. The designs on the coins are produced in such a way that the coin captures the full rainbow spectrum of color from any light source as the coin is tilted back and forth.

 

Produced using a method called 'diffraction grating,' the design is actually a series of microscopic parallel grooves punched into the coin that reflect light at precise angles. The angles are so precise that the viewer sees the whole spectrum of visible light viewing the coin at normal distance. The result is a rainbow effect in selected areas of the coin's design.

 

The design on hologram coins is extremely thin. At less than 1/100th of a millimeter in depth, the lines that produce the beautiful spectrum in the design are too small to see with the naked eye or feel with a fingernail. In fact, when tilted at an angle the coins appear to be blank with no raised detail at all. "

[physics-fan3.14]

I haven't seen dcarr's hologram in hand, but I would suspect so. The Canadian coins have an extremely fine grating, so fine you can't see the lines without extreme magnification. The effect is exactly the same as the hologram on the back of slabs - which is produced by the same method. You can also see a type of diffraction on the back of a CD.

[lehigh96]

No one could hold the originals and the fantasies next to one another without noticing the difference.

 

Except for the fact that there are no originals with which to compare since they do not exist.

 

They don't? Did someone melt all the 1926, and 1928, and 1936, etc Oregon Halves...?

 

 

THERE ARE NO 1927 DATED OREGON COMMEMORATIVE HALVES, I GUESS WITH THE MENTAL CAPACITY OF A THREE-YEAR-OLD WE HAVE TO SPELL THESE THINGS OUT FOR YOU. person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed-.

 

There's no need to be rude, as you were. And I believe his point was that a non-expert could be generally aware of the Oregon Trail commems, but not know them well enough to realize that the 1927 was not struck by the US Mint.

 

I still want to know why protecting some dummy who doesn't have the ability to consult a redbook is more important than my desire to own one of these fantasy coins or Dan's ability to make money by producing them.

 

It occurs to me that I have never seen this level of outrage for things that actually deserve it. The words "gold clad masterpiece" come to mind.

[bochiman]

No one could hold the originals and the fantasies next to one another without noticing the difference.

 

Except for the fact that there are no originals with which to compare since they do not exist.

 

They don't? Did someone melt all the 1926, and 1928, and 1936, etc Oregon Halves...?

 

 

THERE ARE NO 1927 DATED OREGON COMMEMORATIVE HALVES, I GUESS WITH THE MENTAL CAPACITY OF A THREE-YEAR-OLD WE HAVE TO SPELL THESE THINGS OUT FOR YOU. person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed-.

 

There's no need to be rude, as you were. And I believe his point was that a non-expert could be generally aware of the Oregon Trail commems, but not know them well enough to realize that the 1927 was not struck by the US Mint.

 

 

I agree with Mark.

I had a friend who thought he was doing me a favor when he bought some chinese counterfeits for a "great deal".

He had seen some of the silver dollars I had. Had seen the SAEs as well.

 

So, he saw some morgans and a 1906 Walking Liberty dollar.

 

My friend is educated, has a great job, etc. Not a dummy. However, he was only on the periphery of seeing what I had, and didn't know numismatics.

 

Luckily, he didn't lose much.

 

Same could happen to anyone and claiming that "they are sold with a COA as to what they truly are" and "anyone who can read can find information", etc etc etc, is BS and people WILL get ripped off.

 

Sad watching the pushers of these be so perfect and oblivious to others.

[MarkFeld]

No one could hold the originals and the fantasies next to one another without noticing the difference.

 

Except for the fact that there are no originals with which to compare since they do not exist.

 

They don't? Did someone melt all the 1926, and 1928, and 1936, etc Oregon Halves...?

 

 

THERE ARE NO 1927 DATED OREGON COMMEMORATIVE HALVES, I GUESS WITH THE MENTAL CAPACITY OF A THREE-YEAR-OLD WE HAVE TO SPELL THESE THINGS OUT FOR YOU. person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed-.

 

There's no need to be rude, as you were. And I believe his point was that a non-expert could be generally aware of the Oregon Trail commems, but not know them well enough to realize that the 1927 was not struck by the US Mint.

 

I still want to know why protecting some dummy who doesn't have the ability to consult a redbook is more important than my desire to own one of these fantasy coins or Dan's ability to make money by producing them.

 

It occurs to me that I have never seen this level of outrage for things that actually deserve it. The words "gold clad masterpiece" come to mind.

 

I didn't say what I thought was more important. Why did you quote my post (which was aimed at civility) in order to make your point?

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Sorry, guys.

 

"Obvious" means that it can be noticed on sight, without any previous or special knowledge.

 

"the date" requires previous or special knowledge.

 

It is thus not obvious.

 

That's really what it boils down to.

 

Is that your own personal definition of "obvious"?

 

 

No, that's pretty much the dictionary definition of the word.

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obvious

 

ob·vi·ous adj \ˈäb-vē-əs\

Definition of OBVIOUS

1archaic : being in the way or in front

2: easily discovered, seen, or understood

 

[lehigh96]

 

I didn't say what I thought was more important. Why did you quote my post (which was aimed at civility) in order to make your point?

 

, because I thought you were the only one who might give me civil and sane answer.

[x2rider]

@dcarr,

 

I don't know if you are taking suggestions for any future fantasy pieces or not but if you are, here is my recommendation.

 

A 1923-D or 1930-D Mercury Dime

 

I always wanted a Soviet dime but could never find one. Having a fantasy piece of a well known counterfeit would be very cool.

 

"1923" and "1930" dimes exsist in numerous quantities (just not with a "D").

So I don't plan on making either of those. However, Winged Liberty Head dimes over-struck with dates of "1922", "1932", "1933", and/or "1946" are possible.

 

In a way, my "1909-o" Morgan Dollars were sort of a "tribute" to the vintage "micro-o" counterfeits dated 1896, 1900, 1901, and 1902. On my "1909-o" over-strikes I used exactly the same style (small) "o", with the exact same location and tilt.

 

mm I have a confession to make .

I don't know liberty dimes at all but would of just assumed that they made these dates . . While I will no doubt learn up on the series be fore making a purchase for my set, what about the people that don't

 

Also what happens if one of these pieces makes it into a pocket piece and is then carried around for some time and wears down . Could this be just be thrown in with a bulk lot of commenoratives for sale .

I just struggle to see the difference between using an orignal mint coin or

a chinese mint product when both could end up looking exactly the same .

[lehigh96]

Sorry, guys.

 

"Obvious" means that it can be noticed on sight, without any previous or special knowledge.

 

"the date" requires previous or special knowledge.

 

It is thus not obvious.

 

That's really what it boils down to.

 

Is that your own personal definition of "obvious"?

 

 

No, that's pretty much the dictionary definition of the word.

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obvious

 

ob·vi·ous adj \ˈäb-vē-əs\

Definition of OBVIOUS

1archaic : being in the way or in front

2: easily discovered, seen, or understood

 

hmmm, I don't see "without any previous or special knowledge." in the dictionary.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Obvious...? To whom.....? The number of people who would know that this "item" isn't real likely numbers in the thousands, while there are 300+ million people in the United States.

 

How many of these millions would know an authentic Oregon Trail is real? If I took one to McDonalds, would they accept it or call the cops?

 

First off, we're not talking about coinage used in exchange. The commems were never made to be used in normal commerce in the first place. Yes, some of them were (usd in commerce), but every single one of them was designed to be sold at a premium as collector's items, not "spending money."

 

Second, call the cops...? Really....?

 

"Burbank police dept, how may I help you?"

 

"Uh...yeah, I work at McDonald's on Victory and Burbank...this guy is trying to pay for his food with fake coins."

 

"Sir, how do you know these are fake?"

 

"Well...they don't look like real coins."

 

"Ok, sir, we'll be right over."

 

Third..what can you buy at McDonald's for 50 cents....?

 

Yes, it is true that some people spend coins that have significant value over their face. It happens all the time. But people are bombarded all the time about the value of silver and gold, and even if they might not know the specifics, the vast majority of folks know that "old" = "maybe valuable."

 

I did accidentally try to buy part of my McDonalds purchase once with a foreign coin that got mixed with my spending coins - they said ' I can't take this, it is only a half penny' - oops

 

 

 

MJ, I guess I agree with your position

 

Right. it's a foreign coin. "Foreign" being the operative word, here.

 

 

I have never had problems with Canadian coinage at McDonalds, both giving and receiving.

 

 

First, you say McDonald's wouldn't accept your coin, then you say you have no problems with McDonald's accepting your coins.

 

Which is it...?

 

There have been numerous instances of McDonalds calling cops for counterfeits

 

McDonalds calls cops

 

McDonalds calls cops

 

McDonalds calls cops

 

McDonalds calls cops

 

My humorous exchange aside, we're still not dealing with "spending money", so it only strengthens my point when you say "how many would know a real one?"

 

Exactly. And if they don't know the real one, how much less the one that looks real, but really isn't....?