this is some BS!!!

[zboyle04]

it seems everything i send to NGC comes back as improperly cleaned. I e-mailed tham about a previous submission. I mentioned that if the coin truly had been cleaned the luster would be nonexistant, to which they replied "you have to look under the luster." Doesn't make any sense. Well, this is the results from my latest submisison. I was really looking forward to see the grades on the 1921 in particular as it has the best strike i have seen for a 1921.

 

001 1921 PEACE S$1 AU DETAILS IMPROPERLY CLEANED

002 1922 S S$1 MS 62

003 1923 S S$1 MS 61

004 1924 S S$1 AU DETAILS IMPROPERLY CLEANED

005 1928 S S$1 AU 58

006 1928 S S$1 AU DETAILS IMPROPERLY CLEANED

007 1935 S$1 UNC DETAILS IMPROPERLY CLEANED

 

All of these will be cracked out upon arrival and sent to PCGS, along with the remainder of my coins, i am afraid i cannot send anything else to NGC, i truly love their edgeview holders but the grading is really questionable

[zboyle04]

i will remain on the forums, there is still plenty to learn from you guys and you have been extremely helpful so far, i thank you all for that

[James_OldeTowne]

Please share the PCGS results with us!

[BillJones]

Without seeing the coins, it's hard to know if you were fairly treated or not.

 

I will say this. I've had coins I sent to PCGS get body bags and then get grades from NGC. And I've had coins I sent to NGC get body bags and then get graded by PCGS. There are no hard and fast rules, and sometimes the body bag or "genuine" makes no sense.

[kryptonitecomics]

Really can't comment without seeing the coins but I would think it highly unlikely that two submissions in a row NGC got it wrong. It is much more likely that you are mistaking shine for luster and cleaned coins can have impaired luster and still be cleaned. My advice would be to stick with buying coins already certified and save yourself the headaches and wasted fees

 

 

I think sending the coins off to NGC is...how does the old saying go...throwing good money at bad coins and it does not appear that any of the coins you submitted are particular rare so selling them and taking the money gained plus the money you would have spent with PCGS could provide you will a greater level of satisfaction and some new coins to add to your collection (thumbs u

[jerseycat10]

ouch on those grades, need to see pictures

[zboyle04]

i have posted pictures of them in previous posts, the thing that really pisses me off is the one coin i know for a fact had been cleaned, because i did it (dipped in acetone), was graded problem free!!!! really inexcusable on NGC's part. something must be going on over there,.. maybe staring at coins all day makes you go crazy, who knows.

[bsshog40]

I've never had any coins graded but I do know that I have seen a lot of coins get posted here that are not exactly original. I think the severity of older cleanings may be more recognizable than an acetone wash. I wouldn't go as far to say that, if done correctly, that either a coin dipped in a jewelry cleaner or acetone is considered cleaning, more like conservation, and I stress "done correctly". jmo

[physics-fan3.14]

Could you repost pics of the ones that they called cleaned? You might have posted pics in teh past, but I'm not going to go searching for them all.

[James_OldeTowne]

one coin i know for a fact had been cleaned, because i did it (dipped in acetone), was graded problem free!!!!

If you dip a coin in acetone, that will not clean it, from the point of view of what defines an ungradable coin.

[Mark T]

Cracking the coins out and submitting them to PCGS is a total waste of your money. Chances are you will get the same results, even if coins that NGC graded as details get a grade, they would still most likely come back as Au or low MS. You are spending more money in grading fees than what some of the coins are worth.

[zboyle04]

my picture taking is terrible, i cannot get the lighting. I just take pics of them in my room with the overhead light. I will try to take some more, this recent submission should arrive on friday or monday so i can try to redo the pics

[zboyle04]

here is the one that pissed me off the most, 1927-p with nice peripheral toning, good strong luster and an awesome strike that my photos do not accurately capture! Here it is in its shameful NGC details holder

 

 

1921- above average strike, very few marks, as far as 1921's go there are two types, blast white with good luster and the dull ones. It is noted in the book: A guide to Peace Dollars. Although this one is a dull variety, it has a well above average strike, few marks, i figured a solid MS64. If you search ebay for "NGC 1921 peace" you will see the two different varieties, and you will also see how horrible the strike can be on these.

 

 

Overall this has been a very upsetting experience. I bought a lot of silver dollars over this summer and i really looked forward to getting them graded and add them to my registry set. After submitting i checked the status multiple times a day, just waiting to see what they would come back as. Only to be let down again and again. I don't care about the money (grading fees) i want my coins to be accurately graded, to me they are priceless.

[Mark T]

You are questioning the grading skills of NGC when you should be taking an objective look at yours instead.

[James Mayer-migration]

Sounds like you had a hard time with grading, I am by no means an expert but if it was me, I would do everything I could to learn what is looked for in the coins types you have.

If they are saying the coins may have been cleaned then its very possible that they are.

 

One thing I have lost a little cash on is buying a few raw coins that where cleaned over 20 years ago and had re-toned to a point that I missed it. Someone with experience saw the coins and they noticed the 20 year old cleaning, I lost out...

 

I think you have two options, quit or pick up and keep going learning from it....

 

Hope it helps

James

[zboyle04]

i just don't understand how they grade i guess. Here is a current ebay auction for an AU58 1921 peace, look at that coin then look at mine. Keep in mind mine was graded AU details:improperly cleaned. Mine has far more detail than the NGC certified coin on ebay. The color and luster, or lack thereof is the same. Can anyone offer a valid explanation how the coin on ebay is an AU58 (highest AU grade) while mine was graded AU as well?????

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1921-Peace-dollar-NGC-AU58-/390201407679?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item5ad9d0f8bf

[cpm9ball]

I don't know about anyone else, but it's impossible for me to see anything from those photos.

 

Chris

[MarkFeld]

here is the one that pissed me off the most, 1927-p with nice peripheral toning, good strong luster and an awesome strike that my photos do not accurately capture! Here it is in its shameful NGC details holder

 

 

It might just be the image, but the 1927 looks cleaned to me, on the reverse, at the area below "E. PLURIBUS".

[jwkramer61]

my picture taking is terrible, i cannot get the lighting. I just take pics of them in my room with the overhead light. I will try to take some more, this recent submission should arrive on friday or monday so i can try to redo the pics

 

My advice would be to not use your camera's flash. You should have better luck outside on an overcast day (no flash). Give it a try! :-)

 

-Jim

 

[jerseycat10]

here is the one that pissed me off the most, 1927-p with nice peripheral toning, good strong luster and an awesome strike that my photos do not accurately capture! Here it is in its shameful NGC details holder

 

 

It might just be the image, but the 1927 looks cleaned to me, on the reverse, at the area below "E. PLURIBUS".

 

Agreed, there is a clear luster break in the region that Mark mentioned. If you can provide your NGC invoice number we can look at the pictures NGC took for more clues.

[kryptonitecomics]

I can tell zero from the dark images and while I know the TPGs don't get it right all the time...what motive would they have to screw you on two submissions in a row but labeling non cleaned coins as cleaned??? I really think you need to be questioning your own grading and problem detection skills as on the surface that would be a much more plausible explaination for what's going on here...

 

 

I know your upset about this but from reading your posts I am willing to bet that even if PCGS agrees with NGCs contention that the coins are indeed cleaned...your still not going to believe it. Stick with buying already certified coins and you will make out better it would seem.

 

What was your motive for buying these coins raw if you knew you were going to get them certified? In most cases folks are looking for bargains as you can buy raw coins cheaper than graded ones but then you have no assurances as to the quality of the coin you are getting

[MarkFeld]

You have a choice to make.

 

You can continue to assume that you are correct and that NGC got it wrong. Or, you can try to be open minded and use this as an opportunity to learn and improve your grading skills.

 

In my prior post, I pointed out an area on your 1927 Peace Dollar, which appears to be cleaning. Chances are good that NGC saw things you missed on the other coins, as well.

 

If you ever have the opportunity, you should find a knowledgeable collector or dealer who will spend a bit of time with you, reviewing coins and providing some pointers on grading.

[James_OldeTowne]

If you ever have the opportunity, you should find a knowledgeable collector or dealer who will spend a bit of time with you, reviewing coins and providing some pointers on grading.

PM sent to ZBoyle4

[Coinsman63]

I don't know about anyone else, but it's impossible for me to see anything from those photos.

 

Chris

 

I thought I was the only one.

[Coinsman63]

If this doesn't scream and support the argument to NOT submit coins for grading, then I don't know what does.

 

Seems like anyone I know, or have associated with in some way or another, who has submitted coins to a TPG for grading and slabbing is never satisfied with the TPG's opinion, paid opinion, on the grade and always want to crack the coin out and submit the coin to a different TPG.

 

NFN, but if you think your opinion on grading is better than the TPG, why waste your money on the submission?

[zboyle04]

i found a little spot where i can get some better pics, i found the hairlines on the 1927-p, although not present in my other pics they were spotted. After further research and more epics, i cannot find anything wrong with the 1921 and i will still send it to PCGS. Also I changed some settings on my camera and took what i think was the best pic of a coin i have ever taken, check it out. It is a common date morgan dollar with nice red/orange peripheral toning. The toning looks rather bland in the pic but in hand it looks awesome. I think i have finally grown as a picture taker!

 

 

[cpm9ball]

You need better lighting. It looks like you have only a single lamp at 10 o'clock. You can use multiple lights, but put them at an angle no more than about 45 degrees to the subject. If your camera is positioned directly above the coin, you should have enough light without any glare.

 

Chris

[MarkFeld]

If this doesn't scream and support the argument to NOT submit coins for grading, then I don't know what does.

 

Seems like anyone I know, or have associated with in some way or another, who has submitted coins to a TPG for grading and slabbing is never satisfied with the TPG's opinion, paid opinion, on the grade and always want to crack the coin out and submit the coin to a different TPG.

 

NFN, but if you think your opinion on grading is better than the TPG, why waste your money on the submission?

I think that most collectors and dealers who are adept at grading, are generally satisfied with or pleased with the major grading companies. Sure there are disagreements and inconsistencies and mistakes, but those are not good reasons for never using their services.

 

My experience has been, that far more times than not, when a submitter thinks he has been robbed by a low grade, he has missed something that the grading company saw.

[comicdonna]

My experience has been, that far more times than not, when a submitter thinks he has been robbed by a low grade, he has missed something that the grading company saw.

Are graders notes available through NGC?

[Scooter1685-migration]

That's something I'd also be interested to know. On the pictures taken at NGC during the grading process, do they also denote areas where problems are found? Not necessarily on the picture, but just some place where you can read exactly what place they found fault, and what the fault(s) were? That would certainly help me, and probably many other collectors, see why my submissions get the grades they do. It's certainly something I'd like to see.