Prooflike Ultra High Reliefs

[Ross54-migration]

The Prooflike designation (PL) for some NGC graded 2009 UHR $20's is quite controversial on a few website blogs. Would you consider offering some authoritative insight to the community as to why you chose to "create" this designation, why you feel the term "prooflike" was the best or most appropriate term, and how specifically you define the characteristics that distinguish these coins from those without the designation? Thank you very much.

[RMontgomery]

Ross,

 

It was quite apparent from the beginning of the Ultra High Relief program in 2009 that there were substantially different looking finishes to the surfaces of these coins. While many exhibited a frosty and satiny finish, there were others that displayed a remarkably "dark", reflective surface. These were the coins that would be designated "PL" or proof-like by NGC. To qualify for the PL designation, NGC requires that the fields exhibit a pronounced reflectivity on both sides of the coin. One sided PL coins will not receive the designation. Because of the deep concave design, the reflectivity can be challenging to discern, and this is why NGC looks not only at the "blackness" or "darkness" of the fields, but also demands that a clear reflection is noticeable at shorter distances than one would expect for other series of US coins. The distance from the surface that you can realistically expect to capture the reflection may only be a maximum of an inch away before the concavity no longer allows you to see the reflection. Therefore, NGC relies heavily on being able to capture a clear reflection at these shorter distances to still qualify for the PL designation. As with other PL determinations, it is the clarity of the reflection that is key coupled with the fact that both sides must display this reflection. There are many of the Ultra High Relief issues that show prominent reflection on one side or the other. But these can not be deemed PL unless both sides demonstrate the necessary clear reflection.

 

Rick Montgomery

[Ross54-migration]

Thanks Rick so much for your thorough reply. Some collectors argue over using the term "prooflike", and, because PCGS doesn't make such a distinction, suggest that NGC is attempting to capitalize by "creating" a bogus classification.

 

To the contrary, it is very clear from your comments that NGC, having looked at many examples noted a significant difference and then defined criteria to distinguish the class to ensure consistency in its application. Not everyone has to agree, but I applaud your stewardship and initiative in asserting the distinction, as you saw it, based on objective measurable observation.

[RareSov]

I have 3 UHR coins and one is very dark in the fields I am hoping it is the famed PL coin.

 

It looks so different, it deserves a designation. I feel this designation is totally appropriate, and agree with NGC.

 

Thanks heaps for the details Rick ! off I go to try to see an inch of reflection

[mrkim-migration]

Can one submit for PL designation on NGC Holdered coin?

[Max Spiegel]

Thank you for your question. You may submit an NGC-holdered coin under our ReGrade service if you think that it is undergraded or under the Designation Review service if you feel it should have received a designation such as PL.

[mrkim-migration]

Thank for quick reply. Do I have to pay again for tier service, or just regrade service?

 

Or is it a designation review service? I spoke to customer service at your office about another coin that did not come with variety of 'weak s' on 1912-s $5 gold coin and she told me to send $10 to have verity plus service. But on the submission form, there was no place with out paying another tier service fee. These coins are already slabbed.

 

I need help. Thanks.

 

Michael Kim

 

 

[Max Spiegel]

Michael,

 

You would submit the Ultra High Relief under the Designation Review service ($10). For the 1912-S $5, you would submit it under the Variety Plus service and write on the form "WEAK S" so that we know exactly what you think should be listed on the holder. You do not have to pay for a tier so just leave that blank on the form. You should submit the coins on two separate forms but you can ship them in the same box.

 

Thanks,

Max