My new submissions

[glentom1]

HI! I just joined with a Premium membership. Am glad to be aboard, and hope that someone can give me some tips on submissions.

 

For my free 5 submissions I am thinking about submitting an 1863 Dix Civil War token (anybody attempts to tear it down, shoot them on the spot), a 1925 Stone Mountain Half Dollar, an 1828 12 star 1/2 cent, an 1893 Columbian Exposition half dollar (from the Chicago World Fair), and an 1854 One penny.

 

Any opinion? Would those be a wise use of my free submissions?

 

I also have several tubes of 2010 Silver Eagles, and 2010 Vancouver Olympic Maple Leafs, and am thinking about submitting some of them in the hopes of getting an MS70.

 

Lastly I have some 1880/9 VAM-11 MS64 overdates from PCGS that I think might be undergraded, would it serve any purpose to send them to you?

 

Thanks for your help!

[coinman23885-migration]

The first four or five coins listed state nothing concerning grade and any potential defects, if any, present. Pictures would be useful.

 

With regards to the Silver Eagles and Olympic Maple Leaf, you can usually get them slabbed for the $12.50 under the modern tier so using the free certificates should probably be reserved for more expensive submissions who fees are covered by the waiver, but more than $12.50 (i.e. those coins that fall under the early bird tier [$30 value]- I believe you can use your vouchers for this service). The 1880/9 VAM-11 in MS64 maybe worth crossing and you should be able to use your voucher for this - unlike PCGS, NGC doesn't add additional fees when attempting to cross certified coins.

 

P.S. Welcome to the forum.

[glentom1]

Thanks! The 1863 token, Stone Mountain, and Columbian are probably AU, the 1854 probably Fine, and the 1828 is a rough VG. I wasn't really looking for an opinion as much as I was just musing over what might be worthwhile submissions. I suspect that is a hard question to answer.

 

The early bird is just a way to get the coins back quicker, right? Might be useful for the Maple Leafs to catch the Olympic fans, and maybe catch an MS70? Or maybe just do 5 2010 ASE's?

 

Can you explain what you mean by more expensive submissions, short of just quick turn around?

 

It is probably just a lark to think the 1880 is better than the PCGS grade. But here are pics, for the ebay auction. I do have 5 of these.

 

1880/9 MS-64 PCGS VAM-11 O/9 OVERDATE HOT 50! MORGAN 1$

[glentom1]

Here are pics of the Civil war token.

 

 

 

And the 1828:

 

 

 

and one more just for the fun of it.

 

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

PCGS undergrades coins far less often than people - for some reason - think they do. But to be truthful, I wouldn't submit those coins you have imaged for us. Their value appears to be too low to warrant the cost of submission.

[Bugmann1974]

First off, Welcome to the site! I hope you enjoy your time here.

 

I hate to say this and I hope you don't take this as being to harsh but you asked if these would be wise use of your free submitions...

 

The Dix token? Probably not, most of these are pretty common though I am not up to par on the die varietys on these,

 

The half cent. deffinately not. A slab would add no desireablity to the coin in its condition.

 

The Stone Mountain and Columbian Half dollars are pretty inexpensive coins in AU. I personaly would not slab these.

 

1854 One Penny? I assume that this coin is not a U.S. coin as the U.S. never has put the word penny on a coin... What country is it from?

 

I have never understood the idea of putting modern bullion coins in slabs... but if it floats your boat and you have some that are flawless under magnification then go for it and I hope you get an MS70! I believe that most of these have little to no premium in MS69 and lower.

 

Keep in mind that you can not mix U.S. and World coins in the same submission. And you cant mix them with the free submissions. It must be 5 U.S. coins or 5 World coins.

 

That Morgan you posted the link to looks no higher than a 64. I would keep it in the PCGS plastic.

 

What the heck is up with that Barber?

 

I hope this is of some help though I am sure that it isn't what you really wanted to hear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cpm9ball]

Hi, Glen! Welcome to our little corner of the world.

 

I'm not familiar with the early copper, but I don't know if yours would grade given the damage to it. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable about them will chime in.

 

You'd be wasting your gift certificate on the bullion. If you take a look at the NGC Census, you will see that they have already graded 1,399 in MS70 and 11,120 in MS70 Early Releases. It just wouldn't be worth it. Leave the bullion alone and hope that the price of silver rises again.

 

Are you sure about the VAM-11? It's listed on the NGC Census and VAMWorld as an "8 over 7" variety, not an "0 over 9". If PCGS listed it on the insert as an 0/9, you would be better off keeping it as is because there would probably be some CR@ZY F00L who would love to buy it with the error on the insert. Also, a crossover wouldn't be covered by the certificate. You would have to pay the additional fee. We wouldn't be able to give you an honest opinion about an upgrade without seeing photos.

 

As for the Barber............I don't think so! Perhaps Mike (Elbesaar) can tell you something about it since Barber coinage is his specialty.

 

Chris

[cpm9ball]

1880/9 MS-64 PCGS VAM-11 O/9 OVERDATE HOT 50! MORGAN 1$

 

Sorry! I just saw this post. Your original post didn't indicate that it was an "S" mint. VAM-11 is correct for the 1880/9 S, and you have three options to consider:

 

1) Submit it to NGC, pay the crossover fee and have it attributed as the VAM-11 "Hot 50".

 

2) Submit it to PCGS, pay the appropriate fee and have the VAM-11 Hot 50 added to the insert.

 

3) Sell it on eBay (or keep it yourself) as is.

 

Chris

[coinman23885-migration]

The early bird is just a way to get the coins back quicker, right? Might be useful for the Maple Leafs to catch the Olympic fans, and maybe catch an MS70? Or maybe just do 5 2010 ASE's?

 

Can you explain what you mean by more expensive submissions, short of just quick turn around?

 

It is true that the Early Bird Submission Tier has a quicker turnaround time; however, the faster return time isn't the only important point. If you look at NGC's list of fees, each tier is also separated by a maximum declared value. I think the Early Bird allows you to submit coins valued at up to $3000, whereas the other tiers only allow you to submit coins that are worth significantly less (for instance, the cap on the economy is $300). It would, in my opinion, be a waste to submit coins that may only be worth a few dollars with vouchers that you could use to submit more expensive materials.

 

With regards to the photographs added, I do agree with the consensus on the board that all of them are either too damaged or too inexpensive to warrant the expense of having them slabbed (remember - the value of the vouchers isn't the only consideration; you also have to pay to ship them by registered mail, etc.) with the exception of the Morgan Dollar.

 

P.S. If you are only certifying modern coins, you could probably trade the vouchers with someone. Even in you pay the $12.50 to certify the coins yourself, if someone would give you a $30 credit towards a coin, you have essentially netted $17.50. You might want to verify that the vouchers are transferable though. If worse comes to worse, sell the vouchers. I'm sure that you could probably get more than $12.50 for them on eBay.

[cpm9ball]

I thought the vouchers were non-transferrable? They have the name and membership number of the person to which it was issued written on the certificate.

 

Chris

[michael]

welcome to the boards

 

and great responses and advice!! to your question so i will not comment on submissions

[coinman23885-migration]

I thought the vouchers were non-transferrable? They have the name and membership number of the person to which it was issued written on the certificate.

 

Chris

 

That's why I told him to verify whether or not they could be transferred. I don't know since I refuse to pay $100 or more to submit coins through the collector's society. Instead, I submit them under my ANA membership. I'm merely tossing out ideas as food for thought.

[cpm9ball]

The early bird is just a way to get the coins back quicker, right? Might be useful for the Maple Leafs to catch the Olympic fans, and maybe catch an MS70? Or maybe just do 5 2010 ASE's?

 

Can you explain what you mean by more expensive submissions, short of just quick turn around?

 

It is true that the Early Bird Submission Tier has a quicker turnaround time; however, the faster return time isn't the only important point. If you look at NGC's list of fees, each tier is also separated by a maximum declared value. I think the Early Bird allows you to submit coins valued at up to $3000, whereas the other tiers only allow you to submit coins that are worth significantly less (for instance, the cap on the economy is $300). It would, in my opinion, be a waste to submit coins that may only be worth a few dollars with vouchers that you could use to submit more expensive materials.

 

This isn't totally accurate. First of all, the turn-around time for Early Bird, Modern and Modern Special are the same - 12 working days. While Economy has a projected turn-around of 21 working days, the actual delivery time can be shorter or longer depending on the number of submissions needed to be processed, and the same can be true for the other tiers. Early Bird has a maximum value of $3,000 per coin, but Modern and Modern Special have no maximum. Modern and Modern Special require a 5-coin minimum, but Early Bird has no mimimum.

 

Tier Charges (Partial List)

Express - $55 per coin (48 hour turn-around)

Early Bird - $30 per coin

Specialty Gold - $28 (5 working days)

GoldRush - $21 (5 working days)

Economy - $16 per coin

Modern - $12.50 per coin

Modern Special - $15 per coin

 

Chris

[cpm9ball]

.............I refuse to pay $100 or more to submit coins through the collector's society. Instead, I submit them under my ANA membership.

 

That's fine. Everyone has their own personal preference. I have the Elite membership which gives me a 10% discount on the tier charge for my submissions, and it gives me access to Census data and submission tracking which isn't available through the ANA.

 

Chris

[glentom1]

Thanks everyone. My philosophy on getting coins graded seems to differ from most, since my objective is resale. Not that I am not a collector, with sets of most all U.S. coins.

 

Even if I submitted a common coin I would expect its marketable value to increase by $20 or $30. I am sure the coupons are non-transferrable, so I might as well use them for the Early Bird. I don't foresee having coins for grading worth over $300.

 

I am going to submit 5 2010 ASE's. If I get just one MS70 it will pay for my membership. Even the MS69 nets about an extra 10 bucks per coin.

 

On submissions, do you really have to use the non-pvc coin flips? And do you really have to send via Registered Mail, wouldn't USPS with delivery confirmation be acceptable for a modest coin submission?

[prudden]

Hey Glentom1,

 

Your 80S VAM11 is probably correctly graded at 64.There are plenty in that grade and the price shown is about the best you could expect. Funny thing,The 80S is my favorite Morgan of all time.I picked up one of the VAM 11 raw unattributed for 29.00.Had it graded at NGC and it came back MS 66. That's the 2nd 80S I had great luck with.The other is an MS64DMPL that was also bought raw at $30.00. Of course I had to pay grading fee,research fee and mailing/insurance both ways.And,I broke my arm at the Post office just before I sent it off. By the way,what's up with that Barber? Any idea how the date got altered?

[glentom1]

Hey Prudden!

 

Yeah, I know, was just exploring ideas for submissions to NGC for my free ones, I knew better. I got the 80s PCGS for $90 and already have a bid on ebay for $109. And I have 4 others. The VAM-11 was fun to learn about.

 

That's a great story about getting your 80s graded! Its a keeper. If you were an actor you would have been lucky to break a leg! But no, you were just a Numismatist.

 

I love this '100' Barber, I got it at a coin shop in their 1/2 price bin for $9, couldn't pass it up. I keep looking at it and still can't figure out how someone did it, or why! It must have taken a lot of time and precision work. And who knows? Might have been done 100 years ago.

 

The coin shop, in the flip, described it as AN ALTERED DATE TO LOOK LIKE $100. Well, that is not true, it is just the date that is changed, if they had changed the monetary value it would be counterfeit, rather than altered.

 

I put it up on ebay for $100, just as a joke mostly, and it did not sell. But it got over 300 hits and 50 watchers, along with some pretty nasty comments, like "anyone who purposely alters a US coin, or offers one for sale, is subject to a $5000 fine or 5 years in prison or both."

 

Of course we all know that is not true. Altered coins are part of our folklore, and legal as long as they are described as altered.

 

On the other hand, it is the best 1,910 year old coin in my collection. And with nice rims!

[cpm9ball]

The last recorded sale on VAMView for the VAM-11 in MS64 was $185 (2/07); there are no recorded sales for it in MS66, but an MS65DMPL sold for $590 (2/07).

 

This is my favorite 1880-S, PCGS MS65DMPL VAM-4:

[glentom1]

That would be a nice price to get! But seems unlikely, there is always some goofus who gets excited and overbids, which creates those records.

 

I think my picture might help though, until I took it didn't really see the VAM-11.

[cpm9ball]

That would be a nice price to get! But seems unlikely, there is always some goofus who gets excited and overbids, which creates those records.

 

Those prices aren't an aberration in bidding. Here are some others:

 

PCGS MS63 - $122.50 (2/07)

NGC MS63 - $115 (2/07)

PCGS MS64 - $150.09 (1/07)

ANACS MS65 - $142 (1/07)

PCGS MS65 - $336.76 (2/07)

 

If anything, the ANACS MS65 was the real bargain.

 

Chris

[glentom1]

Thanks Chris, so you think my MS64 might go higher than $109?

 

On the '100' Barber Half, I got this contact:

"FYI, the law is clear on offering mutilated US coins for sale: "Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes,

falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of

the United States, or any foreign coins which are by law made current

or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States;

or whoever fraudulently possesses, passes, utters, publishes, or

sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or brings into

the United States, any such coin, knowing the same to be altered,

defaced, mutilated, impaired, diminished, falsified, scaled, or

lightened, Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than

five years, or both. Get the idea?"

 

When I considered I might be going to jail for the altered Barber coin, I envisioned the following scenario:

 

A COIN STORY

 

by Franklin Barber

Opening scene:

 

I was roughly pushed into the jail cell by the guard. I sat down on my bunk.

 

Sitting across from me was the balding middle aged man who would be my cell-mate for the next 5 years.

 

He took a slow draw off the short butt hanging from his lips. The smoke slowly curled up to the ceiling in the otherwise silent cell.

 

He dropped the butt to the floor, and crushed it with his bare foot. He attempted to spit on the floor, but hit his foot instead.

 

Then he spoke softly, "Hey buddy, what ya in for?"

 

I said "I sold an altered Barber Half Dollar on eBay. I didn't alter it! I swear I didn't!"

 

A wry smile enveloped across his face. I said meekly "what are you in for?"

 

His lips curling, aged beyond his years, he said "I'm the guy who altered it."

 

We sat then, musing, two disgraced men, isolated from humanity, for the good of society. Once we had lived on the right side of the tracks, but now we had fallen on the wrong side of the law.

[cpm9ball]

Thanks Chris, so you think my MS64 might go higher than $109?

 

On the '100' Barber Half, I got this contact:

"FYI, the law is clear on offering mutilated US coins for sale: "Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes,

falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of

the United States, or any foreign coins which are by law made current

or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States;

or whoever fraudulently possesses, passes, utters, publishes, or

sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or brings into

the United States, any such coin, knowing the same to be altered,

defaced, mutilated, impaired, diminished, falsified, scaled, or

lightened, Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than

five years, or both. Get the idea?"

 

Well, it has been three years since the others sold. I would think so, but I'm not willing to give you any type of pricing guarantee.

 

As to the comment you received about the Barber Half.............

 

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there is a stipulation in the law about coinage no longer in circulation that would exempt this coin unless you were trying to pass it off as a real Mint error. If it was illegal to try to sell it, even as a conversation piece, then what can be said for Hobo nickels, Love tokens and Elongated cents?

 

Chris

[glentom1]

I was just kidding Chris!

 

Michael White, a spokesman for the U.S. Mint says "It's not illegal to alter a coin," White said. "The guidelines have to do with fraudulent intent. As long as you don't represent the product as anything other than an altered coin, it's within the law." From Los Angeles Times, January 18, 2009. He was responding to complaints of altered coins that have a representation of Obama on them.

 

But the prison story was fun to write. I can just see the crime dramas, "another wayward numismatist caught!" The crack down continues! Crime reduced by 88%!

 

I don't agree with the history that is presented by VAM on sales, as it relates to present value. It is just too old. However they have nothing to gain by reporting them; it is just a matter of fact.

 

When I was a kid in the 50's I would ask my Dad what he thought my bike was worth, and he would say it is worth whatever someone will pay you for it. But it does help to make it cleaner and shined up, and get some other kids to say what a nice bike it is.

 

BTW Chris, I don't think there are any US coins that have ever been taken out of circulation. If one is silly enough to pay for a candy bar with a 200 year old coin, that is their problem! In 1857 though the Congress did pass an act to remove foreign coins from circulation.

[Mark T]

Do not waste a submission on the half cent , it is damaged and would only get a details grade. This coin is maybe worth $ 25 - $ 30 .

Token , I know little about these but as others have said it is not worth submitting .

Barber – what is up with that coin ??

1854 one penny - is this a foreign coin , why bother to submit.

Morgan Dollar – I am not up on Vams so I wont comment.

As for Moderns – as Bugman posted – unless you have a “70 “ coin it is not worth the submission .

 

 

 

[Bugmann1974]

Even if I submitted a common coin I would expect its marketable value to increase by $20 or $30.

 

This is not the case in lower valued coins.

 

Take a look at buy it now auctions on E-bay, I have bought many slabbed coins for less than the price of submitting a coin.

[glentom1]

Near as I can tell so far, one can make a reason for not submitting just about any coin to NGC!

 

A few months ago I bought a coin for $399 which was graded by NGC, and cracked it out of the holder and sold it for $730.

 

I have been evaluating 40 2010 ASE's, and whittling down to the best 5 which I will submit, and I bet I get at least 4 MS70's.

 

Anyway, its all part of the hobby, and fun!

[prudden]

That would be a nice price to get! But seems unlikely, there is always some goofus who gets excited and overbids, which creates those records.

 

Those prices aren't an aberration in bidding. Here are some others:

 

PCGS MS63 - $122.50 (2/07)

NGC MS63 - $115 (2/07)

PCGS MS64 - $150.09 (1/07)

ANACS MS65 - $142 (1/07)

PCGS MS65 - $336.76 (2/07)

 

If anything, the ANACS MS65 was the real bargain.

 

Chris

 

Hey Chris,

There was an 80S VAM 11 MS66 that sold on Heritage a month or two back for a total of $460.00. PCGS price guide is over double that!!! What I don't get is it still shows zero pop for NGC at heritage.But NGC site shows 36 with only 10 higher.

 

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=210014&Lot_No=26394

[cpm9ball]

That would be a nice price to get! But seems unlikely, there is always some goofus who gets excited and overbids, which creates those records.

 

Those prices aren't an aberration in bidding. Here are some others:

 

PCGS MS63 - $122.50 (2/07)

NGC MS63 - $115 (2/07)

PCGS MS64 - $150.09 (1/07)

ANACS MS65 - $142 (1/07)

PCGS MS65 - $336.76 (2/07)

 

If anything, the ANACS MS65 was the real bargain.

 

Chris

 

Hey Chris,

There was an 80S VAM 11 MS66 that sold on Heritage a month or two back for a total of $460.00. PCGS price guide is over double that!!! What I don't get is it still shows zero pop for NGC at heritage.But NGC site shows 36 with only 10 higher.

 

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=210014&Lot_No=26394

 

You must be looking at the Numismedia Pops. The NGC Census shows 37 in MS66 and 9 higher. Heritage must have looked at the wrong line in the NGC Census. There are actually 5 categories of VAM-11 in the NGC Census - MS, GSA, GSA Soft Pack, PL & DPL. Some of these don't have anything listed higher than MS66.

 

Anything can happen in an auction, and with the economy the way it is, it's no surprise. It may be a "Hot 50" coin, but that doesn't necessarily make it a monster VAM that everyone is after.

 

Chris

[Mark T]

Near as I can tell so far, one can make a reason for not submitting just about any coin to NGC!

 

A few months ago I bought a coin for $399 which was graded by NGC, and cracked it out of the holder and sold it for $730.

 

I have been evaluating 40 2010 ASE's, and whittling down to the best 5 which I will submit, and I bet I get at least 4 MS70's.

 

Anyway, its all part of the hobby, and fun!

 

 

If you are going to submit coins to any TPG you need to consider the costs involved. If you have a coin with little value why bother submitting it . If you have a coin worth a few hundred or more then you can consider having it graded. With modern stuff , the coins are better off left in the original holders unless you are sure you have a “70” coin . With that said you can never be 100 % sure that a TPG will give out a “70” grade.

 

 

 

[Schatzy]

Near as I can tell so far, one can make a reason for not submitting just about any coin to NGC!

 

A few months ago I bought a coin for $399 which was graded by NGC, and cracked it out of the holder and sold it for $730.

 

I have been evaluating 40 2010 ASE's, and whittling down to the best 5 which I will submit, and I bet I get at least 4 MS70's.

 

Anyway, its all part of the hobby, and fun!

 

I was curious so I looked at the NGC Pop report.

2010 Early Release

MS69-247,373

MS70-10,903

 

2010 Regular Label

MS69-15,150

MS70-1,612

 

They have graded 2 times more 2010 Silver Eagles than 2009 Silver Eagles.

No offense but you would be lucky to just get 1 MS70 coin.