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1970-D 1¢ Struck on a clad 10¢

Started by nemo656,

30 posts in this topic

nemo656

nemo656

Posted
Posted

Greetings,

This is my first time posting on this board and in fact my first time as a member of NGC. I’ve been collecting most of my life and still enjoy the hobby. I was recently talking with my father, who is 87, and also a life time coin collector. I told him that I joined NGC and will receive 5 free submissions for grading. We were trying to decide just what out of our collections we should submit. He told me of a coin he feels would be worthy of submission and thought I would ask here before we send it in. According to his recollection he acquired this coin from a fellow in his coin club back in 1972, who claimed he found it in a roll of pennies from the bank. He does not recall exactly how much he paid for the coin but believes it was in the $20 - $30 range. He has always wondered if it’s authentic. I personally have never seen a 1 cent like this and was wondering if this would be a good coin to submit.

 

The flip states it is a 1970-D 1¢ Struck on a clad 10¢ WT: 34.08gr.

 

I have taken some pictures of the coin, I am still working on perfecting good pictures of coins. This is the best I can get for now. Any information or suggestions if this is worthy of submission would be appreciated. Also any idea of the value of such a coin.

 

Have a great day

Jim

 

 

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86632.jpg.005742ec088b3a438736415621bd237c.jpg

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erwindoc

erwindoc

Posted
Posted

Welcome to the forum and to NGC. I havent been a member very long either, but have collected for years.

 

Hopefully, some error collectors will drop in and give their opinion, cause this is one that would be very pricey. I feel that it is not authentic. The coin you have is far too heavy to be made from a dime planchet which is 2.27 grams. It is even too heavy to be a cent which is 3.11 grams. This leads me to believe that it is a plated cent which would account for the extra weight. You can also see some flaking of the metal on the rim.

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

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I also am concerned that it might be a fake. It could be on some sort of planchet intended for a foreign coin, but I don't know.

 

I am concerned for three reasons - the oblong shaped and flattened edges are not good. The apparent flaking erwin mentioned is never a good sign. And the details appear bloated and distorted, not crisp like they should be.

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bsshog40

bsshog40

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Posted

Welcome to the forum! This does not look like a cent on a dime planchet to me. If it were struck on a dime planchet, I would think that somewhere on the coin it would have effected some of the lettering. They would be closer to the rim and some possibly even close to being missing. By the looks of your pics also, the coin looks to have been plated with something.

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nemo656

nemo656

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I did not weigh the coin, (don't have a scale, I know I should but....) I do believe that the weight that is show on the flip is in grains and not in grams.

 

Also after a bit more discussion last night it turns out that the person my father bought the coin from is a fairly respected member of the numismatic community. Now that's not saying if it’s genuine or not it’s just another aspect of the history of the coin to consider.

 

The name my father spoke of is Bill Fiva (spelling?), who I have seen his name around on some variety and mint error books. Bill Fiva and my father were in the same coin club in Westchester County, New York. So at this point I would lean towards being genuine, but again I have near zero experience in these types of coins. My thing is Morgan’s and Newfoundland coins.

 

So would the general consensus be to send it in?

 

Thanks so much for the quick replies!

-Jim

 

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nemo656

nemo656

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After reading through the other posts here now my interest is really peaked.

 

I looked at the rim with a loupe, and yes it does appear that the what ever metal is on the rim is peeling. If this were truly a dime planchet wouldn’t there be a clearly defined layer of copper between two layers of the clad material? It looks like it MIGHT be a sandwich of sorts but my eyes are not good enough to tell.

 

Another thought crossed my mind. Now this is a real newbie question and I should know the answer but I don’t. Does a dime planchet have the reeded edge BEFORE it gets stamped or does that happen after?

 

Interesting….

 

 

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L1ncolnF4n

L1ncolnF4n

Posted
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I have to say that it is not a genuine 1c on 10c. I've collected errors for 7 years and dealt in some various off-metal strikes, including 1c on 10c's. The person you are speaking of is Bill Fivaz, he is indeed an expert in the error niche. You may try and get a hold of him regarding it's authenticity.

 

Welcome to the boards.

L1ncolnF4n

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nemo656

nemo656

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I see what you mean Schatzy, about the rim.... and not wanting to futz with the coin to much just in case, but I had to see..... I took the coin out of the flip again and laid it on top of a real penny and the coin is with out a doubt smaller than the penny, I can see the rim of the penny all around the coin in question, and as for the thickness it appears thicker than the penny.

 

Oh boy do I have a lot to learn!!! I need to know how to properly measure a coin's diameter and how to properly measure the thickness. Sorry for being such a newbie. I've been collecting my whole life but only got serious in the last year or two.

 

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bsshog40

bsshog40

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It's funny you mention the thickness Jim. It looked to me that the rim seems to be a little off here and there. I'm not wondering if someone didn't attempt to tap the sides to make the coin smaller in diameter. By looking at the Reverse picture you posted, the rim of the coin seems to be not perfectly round. It was hard to tell in the Obv pic as it was taken at an angle. The reverse is more head-on and you can see where it is not circular in spots. I'm still thinking plated and beat to the size of a dime due to there being a complete rim and lettering.

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nemo656

nemo656

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Wow, thanks so much for all the great information and replies. I sure have a lot to learn. :) - Anyway the more I look at this coin the more I lean towards fake as most of the other posters. I guess the only real way to tell is to send it in. Maybe I'll wait and send in some of my favorites to start with instead of tossing away one of my 5 free submissions to a fake. Thanks so much for all the wonderful welcomes and the helpful information.

 

Have a great day

Jim

 

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nemo656

nemo656

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Guys, remeber this thread from a while back? I just got an e-mail from NGC with the attached image...... I was floored to say the least....

 

91982.jpg.fb61bccc98bb755ad061ada9d8db01b2.jpg

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nemo656

nemo656

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Don't have the coin in hand yet, I guess it is just going through QC today, and that's why I got the e-mail a few hours ago....

 

Jim

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L1ncolnF4n

L1ncolnF4n

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Well I was wrong! The image from NGC completely changes my idea as well. I can clearly see the smaller planchet, versus on the original images it looked almost "squished".

 

That's worth a fair bit, $200-$500. Nice find!

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michael

michael

Posted
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i dont know as i cant see the coin in hand but possibly when the first person who spotted this coin and put it aside

 

possibly they thought it odd

 

and

 

 

someone scraped the edge to see if it was plated??

 

hence edge damage

 

and i am assuming?/ that ngc labeled it edge damaged as it was done post mint??

 

 

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michael

michael

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it is a really neat error coin with a great history and right fromn circulation and now slabbed by ngc

 

a really cool error

with great eye appeal

 

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nemo656

nemo656

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I just talked to my Dad on the phone, he was pleasantly surprised that the coin came back real. In fact both of the mint error coins I submitted came back real, the other one was a 194x S Jefferson 5¢ on a dime planchet. An interesting side note and clarification was that both coins were acquired from Bill Fivaz back in the mid 1970's. It seems my dad and Mr. Fivaz were members of the same coin club and traded coins a number of times over the years. My Dad is now interested in determining the value of these two coins. Like I've said before Mint errors are not my thing or not really my dads thing.

 

So where do we start to determine the value? Is there a book on Wrong Planchet errors?

 

At this time the only information I can find is in the back of the 2009 Red book (page 403 small spiral edition) it shows a Lincoln 1¢ on a 10¢ clad planchet as $350 and the other coin a Wartime 5¢ on a silver 10¢ planchet as $2250 does this seem appropriate? I'll attach the reverse photo to this post and I'll start a new thread with the 5¢ it's a pretty cool coin...

 

Jim

91995.jpg.b290e7ecbe672199cb7f0c56c5ca76a5.jpg

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cpm9ball

cpm9ball

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I just talked to my Dad on the phone, he was pleasantly surprised that the coin came back real. In fact both of the mint error coins I submitted came back real, the other one was a 194x S Jefferson 5¢ on a dime planchet. An interesting side note and clarification was that both coins were acquired from Bill Fivaz back in the mid 1970's. It seems my dad and Mr. Fivaz were members of the same coin club and traded coins a number of times over the years. My Dad is now interested in determining the value of these two coins. Like I've said before Mint errors are not my thing or not really my dads thing.

 

So where do we start to determine the value? Is there a book on Wrong Planchet errors?

 

At this time the only information I can find is in the back of the 2009 Red book (page 403 small spiral edition) it shows a Lincoln 1¢ on a 10¢ clad planchet as $350 and the other coin a Wartime 5¢ on a silver 10¢ planchet as $2250 does this seem appropriate? I'll attach the reverse photo to this post and I'll start a new thread with the 5¢ it's a pretty cool coin...

 

Jim

 

Try Fred Weinberg.

 

http://fredweinberg.com/

 

Chris

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L1ncolnF4n

L1ncolnF4n

Posted
Posted
I just talked to my Dad on the phone, he was pleasantly surprised that the coin came back real. In fact both of the mint error coins I submitted came back real, the other one was a 194x S Jefferson 5¢ on a dime planchet. An interesting side note and clarification was that both coins were acquired from Bill Fivaz back in the mid 1970's. It seems my dad and Mr. Fivaz were members of the same coin club and traded coins a number of times over the years. My Dad is now interested in determining the value of these two coins. Like I've said before Mint errors are not my thing or not really my dads thing.

 

So where do we start to determine the value? Is there a book on Wrong Planchet errors?

 

At this time the only information I can find is in the back of the 2009 Red book (page 403 small spiral edition) it shows a Lincoln 1¢ on a 10¢ clad planchet as $350 and the other coin a Wartime 5¢ on a silver 10¢ planchet as $2250 does this seem appropriate? I'll attach the reverse photo to this post and I'll start a new thread with the 5¢ it's a pretty cool coin...

 

Jim

 

Try Fred Weinberg.

 

http://fredweinberg.com/

 

Chris

 

I'm certain Fred could give a great estimate. He'd likely pay $375 for the cent and $2500 for the nickel, but those are just my best guesses. If you consigned that nickel to Heritage you might get a bit more.

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