1917 T-1 SLQ

[Boba]

Opinions requested on the grade of this BU 1917 T-1 SLQ.

Is this a FH?

Thanks!

 

[michael]

not full head

 

au 58 details

[Mark T]

not full head

 

au 58 details

 

I agree au58, not a full head. I can not really tell from the photo if it was cleaned as it could be the lighting. The dark spots on the edges of the coin are suspicious..

[physics-fan3.14]

I also am leery of the spots. AU seems right, but it is not a full head.

[Mark T]

Where did you get this coin ??

[MarkFeld]

I'm feeling very lonely saying this , but I think it's possible that it is Full Head and/or choice uncirculated. I just can't tell from those images.

[physics-fan3.14]

Anything's possible when looking at pictures, Mark.

[Boba]

Many thanks to all who offered their opinions so far!

 

I don't own it (yet) but I may want to buy it.

 

It's on ebay for a pretty good price, but I wanted to see what the experts here thought about it.

 

It's represented as a BU. Here are a few other close-up photos to get more perspective.

 

Bob

 

[MarkFeld]

Those coins are readily available in various certified uncirculated grades. I don't understand why you would take the risk of buying an uncertified one in an Ebay auction.

 

Edited to add: Maybe I do understand - it is that desire to try to beat the odds of making determinations from images and getting a "good deal". And that often leads to "bad deals".

[Boba]

Point well made. The only motivation would have to be price. This coin is selling for $395, which seemed to me to be a good price for what it looked like.

[Boba]

What I have been noticing lately is that even graded coins are scrutinized for flaws and such, so what guarantee do I have buying a certified coin that I won't buy a "dud" as opposed to a well photographed raw coin with a satisfaction guarantee return policy?

[MarkFeld]

What I have been noticing lately is that even graded coins are scrutinized for flaws and such, so what guarantee do I have buying a certified coin that I won't buy a "dud" as opposed to a well photographed raw coin with a satisfaction guarantee return policy?

First, a certified coin is typically far more liquid. And second, the odds of of an uncirculated certified coin actually being uncirculated are greater than those of an uncertified uncirculated coin actually being uncirculated.

 

And by the way, I just checked the Heritage archives, which show that NGC and PCGS MS63FH examples have sold for less than what you thought was a good price on Ebay.

Do your homework and quit trying to get good deals, and you will probably be much better off.

[Mark T]

Point well made. The only motivation would have to be price. This coin is selling for $395, which seemed to me to be a good price for what it looked like.

 

At $ 395 you should walk away from this . You can get a certified MS 64 FH for that price. What is the ebay auction number for the coin ?

[Mark T]

The area circled on your coin is to flat for a FH designation.

 

I posted a close up of a FH for this series.

 

Notice the details .

[Boba]

I am doing my homework - that's why I am asking - I know you guys are tough graders.

I appreciate the advice really.

 

It's item #390056671913

 

Thanks for taking the time to offer your expertise.

[Mark T]

This seller has an excellent feedback score however for a raw coin it is over priced. If you really want this coin then I suggest offering him $ 200. But I still recommend you looking for one of these already certified. Because there is a large difference in price between FH and non FH you need to be careful getting these raw.

[MarkFeld]

I am doing my homework - that's why I am asking - I know you guys are tough graders.

I appreciate the advice really.

 

It's item #390056671913

 

Thanks for taking the time to offer your expertise.

By "homework" part of what I meant was being familiar with pricing/values. And the fact that you thought the price seemed good tells me one of two things: 1) You are unfamiliar with values for MS63FH and MS64FH examples and/or 2) You thought it might grade 65 or higher, in which case you definitely shouldn't be buying uncertified ones

[Boba]

You're correct I thought it was a FH and possibly a MS65. I admit the hobby has evolved well beyond the days when I started to become interested in coins.

I need to brush up a it. I looked at you web site Mark (F), you have some gorgeous stuff up on it.

Thanks again.

 

 

[Boba]

I suggest offering him $ 200.

I just might wait for a nice certified to come along.

Thanks for the advice.

[jackson64]

For what it's worth I believe it to be FH...I've been led to believe that a complete and distinct line seperating the hairline from the face is considered a FH strike detail..it also has very nice rivets and luster...it is the revers that troubles me...the upper edge of the eagle's wing is flat and the photo shows little detail in the eagle's breat/chest area...

[Boba]

For some comparison, here is an AU58 specimen currently on Heritage.

 

Detail

 

Obverse

 

Reverse

 

 

[BillJones]

Here is another one you can use as a comparison. This one is in a PCGS MS-65, Full Head holder. I agree with the grade.

 

 

I agree with the others that it's foolish to buy this coin raw. Almost all of them have a full head or a virtually full head. Why take the chance? As a raw coin, this piece is no bargain at $395. I don't think that the piece you are thinking about buying is as nice as the one pictured here. And the coin you are thinking about would have to get this grade to be viewed as "a bargain."

[Boba]

Now that is an amazing coin!

 

Here's another listed as NGC CERTIFIED MS65FH on ebay, power seller mostly (more than 99%) positive feedback

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Either the OP coin is circulated or it is a rare weak strike. I would have actually guessed AU-50 from the opening images, since I would always start with the assumption that it doesn't suffer strike deficiency.

 

Although I agree with Mark Feld to some extent regarding buying these uncertified off of eBay, I happen to prefer buying them UNcertified NOT off eBay, since this particular issue is usually easy to grade, and striking problems seldom play a major role in their grade.

 

At the end of the day, I'd pass on the subject coin.

[MarkFeld]

I would have actually guessed AU-50 from the opening images, since I would always start with the assumption that it doesn't suffer strike deficiency

You would have actually guessed too low, assumption or otherwise.

[BillJones]

Now that is an amazing coin!

 

Here's another listed as NGC CERTIFIED MS65FH on ebay, power seller mostly (more than 99%) positive feedback

 

 

I would not recommend that you purchase this piece because of the location of the marks on Ms. Liberty’s leg. When experienced buyers review these pieces for the grade, one of the first places they look is on the knee to if the piece as a tell-tale rub there. If there is a significant disturbance of the luster in that spot, it is grounds for grading the piece AU. In this case the coin does not have a rub there, but it’s got a scratch. The scratch will cause some customers to reject the piece, and it will prompt knowledgeable buyers to pay less than top dollar for it. The mark on Ms. Liberty's shin is a minus also. The mark on the portal to the right of the shield is not in an important spot and does not present a problem for an MS-65 piece IMO. But the other two marks are a problem.

[Boba]

I noticed the marks on the knee and shin you observed and thought they were a bit unsightly myself.

There's also a small one on Liberty's neck.

[Coindude]

There seems to be something on her cheek as well. I right off noticed the Knee and Shin bumps.... the neck was of less importance but looks like she had thyroid surgery!

 

On another note, I love the skin on the reverse, but it does seem to have a few dark spots, but the fields are pristine.