SEGS 1795 dollar ...the Continuing Saga
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Mr. Feld - if/when you say you're going to do something, please do it.

 

I will not be posting again to this thread, but will wish you the best of luck in getting this resolved.

 

;)

 

 

Just giving you a hard time, Mark. I really appreciate how passionate you seem to be about RI AL's situation.

 

Great, now Mark will have to go and create another thread. :devil::boo::baiting:

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Unfortunately, nothing new to report from last night or this morning. (shrug)

 

RI AL

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seems to me and i really do notget out much but of the hundreds of early coins i have seen in segs holders in my opinion all ALL have been slight to major problems and holdered in their holders with no such annotitation

 

but as with segs i am sure even a broken clock is right twice a day

 

 

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Prediction:

 

if SUGS says it is authentic then what? What good is a coin slabbed by SUGS any way?

 

if SUGS says it isn't authentic then what? What good is a coin slabbed by SUGS any way?

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Michael. I sent in a bunch of SEGS and some other not top tier slabs to PCGS for crossover in the past 3 months or so. The majority of the SEGS slabs DID crossover and the grades were the same except in 1 instance where SEGS was XF 40 and PCGS was 35. 3 pieces did not cross over; the 1795 dollar of course, a 1797/1 half cent that Segs marked as "VG 8 massive planchet defect" and I agree, and PCGS called it damaged and the third was an 1806 1/2 cent Segs called "worn planchet VF 20" and PCGS said cleaned. So, at least in my experience, SEGS is right more often than "twice a day".

 

RI AL

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i agree ri al but the saying broken clock right twice a day is an old saying not literially twice

 

could be more if you fix the clock and clearly you cherry picked the sugs coins that were good and left the rest so you got it morethan twice in one day

 

yes i am sure if i made it my mission to look at all the sugs coins and only picked some of the good ones out of many many then yes i am sure they could be okie

 

but the 125 sugs coins i saw the last three shows i went to early typemostly early dollars where all rat pig dogs of the highest order

 

 

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clearlyanything good in sugs isbought and putaway by collectors orcrossed so i am clearly seeing the dregs of the dregs

 

sure if i cou8ild cherry every sugs coin nottjust the rejects at shows i am sure my percentage would go up but only slighly

 

as you must admit you are crossing to pcgs YOU ARE NOT BUYING PCGS NGC COINS AND CROSSING THEM TO SUGS :insane:

 

 

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BOTTOM LINe IF YOU wanted to buy a flowing hair dollar

 

1795 lets saya nice original vf 25 and you asked say a knowledgable coin friend who you trusted to findone for you in lets say PCGS holder it might take THEM 6 months a year maybe sooner?? and looking at 12 20 30-50 coins to pick you out a killer and then you would not be in this pickle

 

in fact is you if you did the above 5 years ago you would be in a huge profit mode

 

but be that as it may you can see the nonsence you have been going through

 

with less than forthright slabbing services and again it is all a matter of opinion

 

we shall see how this all turns out and if it can be sorted out before the end ofthe next century

 

i truly hope so

 

 

i aint a buyer of sugs coins never have never will but ilove to look and so far i do not like ANYTHING I HAVE EVER SEEN and yes maybe i donot get aroundmuch after45 years of playing thisgame

 

and yes maybe i am missing out but for me i just make so much less of a headache for myself

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Interesting point, Michael. Actually, I DID cherry pick the coins but they were RAW when I bought them. I received and invitation from SEGS to join their club, must be 10 years ago or more ... and used the promotion they offered for a reduced price for SEGS certification for a small bunch of coins.

 

I can't comment on what you saw at the show, but now if I saw a nice coin that I really liked and it passed inspection, I don't think the SEGS slab would prevent me from buying it and then crossing it over. I bought an NTC $2.50 because I liked it and thought it was decent. It did cross over to PCGS as an AU 53, NTC had it as AU 58.

 

I guess there are exceptions to every rule, and good and not so hot in every slab, regardless of the name on the label. Now there are exceptions, like the rediculously outrageous grading of NGS. Just as a learning lesson for myself, I won on E-Bay a 1917 s obverse and reverse walker pair. They were graded VF 25 and XF 40. I paid $18 for the pair. Anyway, the vf 25 is no better than Good 4, and the xf 45 is a vg 8 at best. I can't post pictures because my computer developed terminal acne and is in the shop and the digital camera doesn't work (at least I don't know how to do it) on my wife's laptop, on which I type this. But...as said SO many times here on the board, "buy the coin, not the slab".

 

The reason I can't post pictures of those 2 walker beauties lol, my Dell desktop was 1 year and 1 month old when it went TU 2 days ago. So it was 1 month out of warranty. Isn't that always the way???!?!? Anyway, I remembered that I put it on my American Express card and they automatically extend the warranty for 1 additional year for free. SO, I will either get a new computer of equal price or have it repaired (if repairable) on American Express' dime. Not such a bad deal for a no annual fee, cash back card. (They will now probably close my account because we never carry a balance!!) :o

 

RI AL....longwinded....again

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I know there are always exceptions. But there are very good reasons that one finds coins in NTC holders and in SUGS holders, with the exception of you yourself buying a raw coin and having them holdered by SUGS on the cheap. Your record would be vastly different if you bought those coins, they were already in SUGS holders and then tried to cross them to PCGS. I guess this is a good example of telling the FULL and TOTAL story first instead of a partial story trying to prove a point that coins in SUGS holders are just as good as any top holder.

 

The fact remains that you now want to gross SUGS coins over to PCGS or NGC and failed to do so with the .50 piece. Unfortunately buying raw coins is a shoot, but paying SUGS coins is buying most of the time and if you do not know that by now you are missing one very important lesson my friend. Word to the wise, penny wise and pound foolish, there is a reason why SUGS holdered coins sell cheap.

 

Just wanted to add, I like RI AL but i don't want to influence newbees into thinking that it is safe to buy SUGS as compared to NGC and PCGS holdered coins and that is why I am being pretty firm and serious with this subject matter. You see I was once a newbee and didn't know better and bought a few coins holdered by SUGS and paid a price, and these were coins that I did not pick out raw and decided to have SUGS slab on a special discount deal if you know what I mean and I think yah all do,

Edited by realone

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WARNING...another Blah Blah Blah from RI AL. :blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:

 

 

NTC and other bottom of the barrel companies, like the NGS coins I referenced earlier somewhere are a joke. I did buy 1 NTC, the $2.50, and it turned out well when PCGS got their hands on it. Just lucky I guess. On these real low life slabbing companies, and there are a ton of them, I couldn't agree more that chances are there is garbage inside the holder.

 

All I saying is that MY experience with SEGS and the coins I sent in to them 10 years ago, (the 1795 dollar is not part of that group) turned out to be not such a bad thing. Yes, I bought the coins raw and sent them to SEGS, but in comparing the 7 coins in question from SEGS that I tried to crossover to PCGS, 4 made it with no problem with only 1 lowering of a grade from SEGS 40 to PCGS 35. The other 3 coins I KNEW were coins with issues and I sent them in to PCGS to be slabbed with "Genuine". (though that didn't happen...someone dropped the ball but no big deal.) These 3 coins had red labels in the SEGS slabs which, if I understood correctly, were indicative of a problem of some sort. PCGS agreed and didn't slab them. So, comparing the overall SEGS and PCGS results, there was very little difference. The 4 decent SEGS coins made it into PCGS holders. The 3 red label SEGS pieces didn't.

 

Now, confronted with 3 equal coins (not possible I know), but 3 decent coins...same type, same grade, same eye appeal...I would not specifically avoid the SEGS coin because of the slab. If it was in my opinion the best coin, then that would be my purchase.

 

I do have to agree with you that SEGS seems to have lost some of its direction and while I haven't done any comparing recently of new SEGS stuff, we have to remember that PCGS and NGC both have gone through "stages" of tighter to looser back to tighter standards and so on. Maybe this is where SEGS lost its direction. The standards changed and not necessarily for the better and maybe got stuck???

 

Bottom line, in my mind, the SEGS of 10 years ago is different from the SEGS of today, based on virtually all of the comments about SEGS certifications I've read here. I have no means of comparison so I gladly trust the opinions of those far more educated than I on the subject. MY SEGS experiences were pretty good. Whether that would happen again I don't know but based on what I read here , I imagine it is pretty unlikely...finding high quality stuff in SEGS slabs. I mean, let's face it...if a coin would make it in PCGS or NGC slabs, who WOULD choose SEGS? The coin would sell for less just because of the slab and the PERCEPTION that it is more likely to be problematic or inferior in some way. I would feel uncomfortable saying that all SEGS slabs are on problem coins, but how many cleaned or otherwise less than perfect coins make it into PCGS and NGC slabs?

 

I don't plan to use SEGS again, mainly because now I need to feel somewhat more assured that the grade on the coin is reasonably accurate. There are no guarantees but to rule ALL SEGS coins as inferior, well, I just don't see it that way.

 

Anyway, your advice is sound as directed to the new collector. Stick to the best 2 companies when you buy and your chances of accurate results on nice, problem-free coins are very good...not perfect...but they offer the best chance. I now follow that rule 100% of the time but somewhere...there might be some overlooked decent SEGS stuff. If I ever make it to another coin show I would like to do some comparing on my own, though I suspect that I already know what the outcome would be. But remember, had I sold my 4 SEGS coins instead of shipping them off to PCGS, there would be 4 decent coins from SEGS on the market. I imagine that there are more out there somewhere. I can't be the only one who did the SEGS thing years ago.

 

I'm not defending SEGS, I'm just suggesting that for me it worked out pretty well. Could this happen again, well...who knows for absolute sure?

 

Now that I've said all that...let me sum up...

 

SEGS was good for me way back when. Older, wiser and more experienced now, I'd rather take the acknowledged safer route...but every now and then, just MAYBE a back road would get me where I was going too. The main road, though, is safer. I'll stick to the main road.

 

RI AL...stirring up the pot again...but based only on my personal experience.

 

No HATE MAIL, please...I'm a sensitive kind a' guy. :blush: Have a good evening and a great weekend, guys. We're off to West Palm Beach on Monday to see if we're going to buy a house for retirement at 50% off sale. Plenty to choose from.

 

:blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:

Edited by RI AL

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I certainly got "took" on a two coins in an NTC holder in my rookie day. Yet, I have lost more money on paper cracking 3 certain coins out of their NGC holder than I have on all the third world slabs I've purchased combined. So, nobody is perfect!

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Yet, I have lost more money on paper cracking 3 certain coins out of their NGC holder than I have on all the third world slabs I've purchased combined. So, nobody is perfect!

 

What happened after cracking?

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ri al i really give you credit

 

i just wish the coin game was more genuine and honest with these second and third world slabbing companies you really got to bewell informed and shreud to get thruogh thecoin game and other things that will remian not mentionable on here;;;;;;;; :devil:

 

 

it has cost coin collectors many lost $$$$$ and the hobby many collectors that dont collect coins anymore

 

but as one of the top wholesalers many years ago used to tell me that if it is in your blood many always come back and of course are wiser and smarter hopefully

 

and on another note it is really not that easy to navigate the certification services when submitting it is more of an art ......just not simple to write on the forms and then calling them as most of the time the services especailly so pcgs never seem to get it maybe it is their employees that are not collecytords and do not understand the mindset well enough to help and also a huge submission and entering thecoin nightmere along with all the paperwork

 

not for the faint of heart

 

OKIE THE MAIN THING

 

I HOPE YOU GET YOUR MONEY BACK FOR THIS COIN OR SOMETHING IS WORKED OUT TO YOUR SATISFACTION

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I have been following this topic from the beginning and I believe it is time to start calling SEGS and ask for a resolution. If the person who answers can't help you then ask for their manager and keep going up the line until someone can help you. If you still get no response then I would keep calling several times throughout the day to try and get an answer.

 

This has gone on for way too long.

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Good morning, guys.

 

Thanks for your always interesting and informative comments. I am always learning from you all.

 

Dwaine, SEGS has been called; 4 times but unfortunately all I got was "

"No answer" or the "I'll pass the message on" responses. At this point, I don't think the problem lies with SEGS per se. By the way...as expected...no progress yesterday on getting this resolved.

 

Keep the supportive words coming, guys...it spurs me on!

 

Alan RI AL

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I WILL, the Thing!!! Looking into something VERY interesting that might be of help. Hopefully it won't be needed.

 

RI AL

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I think this thread is of huge importance.

It tells a great story.

We have a very reasonable collector who had done business with this grading co over the years, a repeat customer. He had a problem with one of the coins that they graded and he contacted them with regards to the issue at hand and they asked him to send it in to them for review.

The result is there is no result, the company has dropped the ball period no ifs ands or buts. It says a lot about them as a grading co and it isn't complimentary. The interesting thing though, is that their non-response may be indicative of their ability as a grading co.

 

 

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I'm thinking that SEGS actions are bordering on the criminal now. That is a c. $5K coin and Al's personal property. SEGS has had the coin well over a month now and no one will return his calls or give him the time of day. Maybe it's about time to retain an attorney.

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This is really total BS!! I would call them on monday and wouldn't let them get you off of the phone.

 

Al you are doing a lot better than I would in your situation!!

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Gentlemen, trust me on this one...while somehow I still maintain my faith in Mr. Briggs' good intentions (hopefully not unwarrented at this point) and barring some significant family crisis or major illness, his actions in my view, as shared by many of you who are reading this now, are inexcusable. For him to now take a moment to acknowledge me and propose a resolution to the issue at hand would speak volumes. Unfortunately, the lack of same also speaks quite loudly and clearly. Furthermore, to have "Dennis" relay a message to me via this board, and then not act upon that message, is incomprehensible to me and disrespectful to the credibility of Dennis.

 

I have been doing my "due diligence" and have made some contacts that may be helpful in resolving this issue. I have also received some very interesting PM's that may ultimately shed some light on the possible future direction this may take. I only hope this can be resolved promptly and in a civil fashion.

 

To make it perfectly clear, I am asking only of Mr. Briggs that he honor his promise, "to do everything in {his} power to make things right", nothing more, nothing less. I certainly put my full faith and trust in Mr. Briggs and his excellent reputation by sending the 1795 dollar to him at his request. In a way, I was flattered that he would even express an interest in what surely must be a very insignificant issue to him. It is not, however, insignificant to me and it baffles me that I am having to deal with this at all.

 

I am a trusting man, and rarely have been burned because of it. Honesty is perhaps the quality that I most respect in people. To have someone with the reputation of Mr. Briggs, who has given so much to the numismatic world, decide to take this course of action is exceedingly inconsistent with my opinion of he and his work. I am having trouble merging the two, totally opposite sides of the same individual.

 

I will be unavailable Monday through Wednesday of this coming week but I should have the opportunity to check my e-mail. Hopefully when I return, there will be good news. You all will be the first to hear...either way. Have a good evening, everyone, and yet one more time, to those of you standing with me on this, your words of encouragement and support mean a great deal. Thank you. Alan RI AL

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Yup.Too long. I don't care if the owner is on his death bed,there must be someone there who can give him an answer as to the status up to this point.But,It sounds to me like no one has even seen the coin except maybe the owner and he ain't talkin'.

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Dog gone it.

If SEGS doesn't get back to you with a month, ok, maybe two months, at the latest, I suggest you put your foot down.

 

It's getting a bit ridiculous.

 

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Another weekend is nearly over...nothing new to report.

 

RI AL

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So whats your next step? Send him a gift certificate for 2 to Applebee's saying how much you appreciate his good intentions? (shrug)

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So whats your next step? Send him a gift certificate for 2 to Applebee's saying how much you appreciate his good intentions? (shrug)

 

:signfunny:

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I believe that I have figured out the situation on why the time span.

 

If they determine that pcgs is correct, that does not bode well for them.

 

If they determine that pcgs is incorrect, that does not bode well for them.

 

Doing something is problematic, either way they lose and doesn't bode well for them.

 

Doing nothing is their only safe bet at this time depending on how their client handles the matter.

 

Taking the pressure off will not help to make them make a move.

Keeping the pressure on will force them to make a move.

 

 

 

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I'm thinking that SEGS actions are bordering on the criminal now. That is a c. $5K coin and Al's personal property. SEGS has had the coin well over a month now and no one will return his calls or give him the time of day. Maybe it's about time to retain an attorney.

 

It's likely been sent off to a lab for forensics. ANAAB often kept coins for 3 to 6 months before making a determination on authenticity.

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