Revenant

In Italy, 500 Lire, 1982-2001, Circulation Issue, the set skips from 1989 to 1991. I think there should be a slot for 1990 - I've actually sent off a 1990 for grading that has the same reverse as the coins listed, so I think the 1990 belongs in this set even though it looks like the set excludes some of the circulating commemoratives like the 1996, and the 1997.

It is often the case that I have a few Gold coins with BIN listings in my Watch List on eBay. These are usually examples of the next type coins I want to add to my type-set of late-19th and early 20th century gold coins from different nations - what I call my Golden Nickels. This is a particular point of interest to me around this time of year when I'm hoping a Bonus or a good tax return will convince Shandy to let me buy one. One thing I'd been looking at for a long time was a MS64+ 20 Kroner from 1916 - 1916 being one of the higher mintage years for this coin. The NGC population includes about 120 coins with about 22 MS63s, about 25 MS64s, this one MS64+, 56 being MS65, and 1 being MS66. So this coin was close to the middle of the population, but the population is crushed at the top with all the coins above it (currently) only being marginally above it (MS64+ vs MS65) and only one in existence currently graded over 65 by NGC. The seller had it listed at $615, which I honestly thought was pretty reasonable in its own right, I just wasn't ready to pull the trigger. Then, Monday night, the seller sends me an offer - for $550. I screen capped this and sent it to Shandy like, "I'm not going to lie, that seems like a good price to me." - the coin has about 0.25 toz of gold in it and it had a melt value right around $474, so that price was only about $75 over melt, about 16% over melt, for a coin that is graded and almost got a Gem Uncirc grade. To my surprise, Shandy also thought it was a good price, and she likes the look of the coin, so she encouraged me to just go ahead and go for it - we had the cash, even if I don't end up getting a bonus or we don't get a great return. So I slept on it, then sat down while things were quiet and slow, I looked at the pictures, looked at the seller's feedback, did the Cert# verification and looked at the NGC picks vs the seller's images. Everything looked good, right down to the copper spot near the 2 on the reverse, and I decided to take it. Yeah, I probably could have gotten an MS65 if I'd waited, but I think the premium would have been higher, I like the look of this coin, and I liked the price, and I think I'm unlikely to regret getting this down the road. Going back to a conversation with Mike not long ago in discussing MS65 and MS66 coins that have marks that just happen to be in very unappealing locations, I think if that copper spot near the 2 on the reverse was in the middle of the coin or on Christian's cheek I probably wouldn't like it. With it off in the legend by the two, I actually kind of like it for the character it gives the coin from being 106 years old. I think the coin holds up very well under these fairly high magnifications and I'm looking forward to seeing it in hand soon. Going back to the idea of getting this coin vs an MS65, I suspect there are many MS65 graded examples out there of those ~56 that I'd find less attractive and less appealing than I find this one.

Depending on the category you pick it could be monumental - the Morgan dollars, the Lincoln pennies... Some of those... 😱

Well, if you know in 2 weeks, or even 3, that's still a heck of a lot better than 4 months (or 6, or 8...). And when you factor in waiting for it to reach them it's really more like knowing in 2 weeks from when you mailed it off vs 3. So you're paying to know faster, and you're going to know a lot faster. So, I'd say you're still getting what you're paying for - you're still moving to the front of the line and finding out months sooner. Trust me, I wasn't happy about this when it was me either, and there's plenty to complain about, but not sending things in and waiting for this to pass isn't going to help if you want something graded before 2023 or 2024. And I've known too many people that worked in Customer Service roles to not be as nice as I can bring myself to be to those folks. The "what's the rush" thing was more just joking about the fact that I don't think I'd ever be able to convince myself to pay that much more for a service that, as you say, already isn't cheap, to get something faster, unless I had a strong, compelling need for that thing to be graded. I'm just too cheap for that.

As they are quick to point out, these are estimates - and sometimes they're quite bad estimates. I had a World modern sub that I sent in with a ~44 day estimate and it took about 85 days (by my count anyways...). While they have gone on the record several times saying that this turnaround is estimated based on when the box is delivered to the facility by USPS, this forum is full in threads where they quote a number of days as how long something has been there that is closer to / apparently based on when the box was opened and entered in, not when it was marked as delivered by USPS or their tracker said it was in the building. I've also gotten similar treatments from their replies to emails IIRC. This apparent inconsistency has been pointed out several times and I haven't seen a very clear response on it so far. So... If you don't mind me asking, what has you in such a rush? Is one of the coins a valentine's present or a birthday present, or something? At least, for the moment, there's no awards deadline hanging over us like the sword of Damocles. It stinks, but I do think they're trying their best, and I think the only way to deal with it right now is just to try to build-in at least a 2x factor on their advertised turnaround as a buffer for if you have any make-or-break or critical deadline.

That... would stink... that's right up there with realizing you didn't put the paperwork in the box.

If you have them there already i'd say you'll most likely have them in time for December. Anything sent in after maybe Mid-April I'd consider a real gamble on if it is back for December. Anything after June I don't think I'd hold my breath on.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "better." Yeah, I might have my coins at NGC for less time but at least doing it now they're "in line" and I will get them back this year. If I wait, how long will this last? How long will it before I send them and when (what year?) will I get to finally grade these and finish that set the way I want? I'd rather do it now and endure the wait this way.

NGC will always give you a better answer straight from them if you ask the service email or ask in the ASK NGC/NCS forum like I did and linked to above. But my understanding is that they do so much high value business with USPS that they have a little satellite PO with postal workers in their building for NGC/NCS/PMG/the rest of the alphabet soup.

Yeah.... I had similar concerns and asked on the forums and Lisa clarified that it just needs to be physically in the building by COB on Monday 1/31. But... Yeah. I'd noticed that on the opening boxes thing and I'm thinking their current advertised 71 Business Day turnaround times are going to prove to be a pipe-dream if they are 2 months (~35-40 business days) behind in opening mail if you measure that 71 business days from when the package hits their door - Which Matt has said they do, but repeated comments from Lisa and the CS staff have had them measuring turnaround from the day the package was marked as "Received" in the system and not from the day it was delivered. This makes sense when you consider that they record on the submission when it is entered in and I don't see why they would record on a submission by submission basis when the box arrived because, until this last year, those two dates would have almost always been within a week of each other. The more I look at this situation the more I'm thinking that the May-June time-frame suggested by their current turnaround times is almost certainly going to be an August-September return for the coins I just sent in. On the plus side though, if they don't open the box until March they won't charge my card until March and so I won't have to pay it off on the CC until more like May. Take the wins where they come.

I mailed out that submission to NGC on Jan 14th. It got to the Sarasota distribution center around midnight on Jan 20th, processed through there in about half and hour and was marked as in route to the destination facility. And then... Nothing. Today is the 26th. It has not been scanned in 6 days and about 10 hours. Starting Monday I started sending emails and trying to shake things out because if it isn't at NGC by COB on Monday the 31st the new pricing comes into effect and the cost of the box goes up $32. Well, turns out it has been in a container for 6 days, between the Sarasota distribution hub and the local PO, and they have apparently a line of about 25 containers they're working on, and they've been having delays because of lack of personnel and lack of drivers and... But.. 25 containers. Wow. Talk about bottlenecks. It has been stuck in Sarasota, waiting to be sent to the final destination longer than it was in Transit from my local PO in Texas to the Sarasota distribution hub. I would have thought that 17 days would have been PLENTY of time for something to get there. Normally it takes a week or less. Clearly in this case, absent this one bottleneck at this one leg of the trip, it would have been there in 7 calendar days. Normally this would have been fine. But this isn't normal. The very nice, polite woman at the Sarasota post office that called me (not being sarcastic at all here, she was very nice), was hopeful that it could come through today based on what she was seeing. So I'm just going to cross my fingers that they can make it happen and get it to NGC by Monday. If not, using Registered mail might cost me not just the $13 for Registered, but $32 for the price increase, making that a fairly expensive safety measure. But, if that happens, I'll just let it go. At the end of the day, after all the work that went into those coins, if that box had gone missing I would have gladly given up $32 to get it back., and even if it costs me I still think it was the right choice. $32 won't break me this month. Not even close. It is just very frustrating in the moment. Edited to Add: So... Only about 40 minutes after she called me the first time, the USPS worker I'd talked to called me back again and let me know that it had hit that location / come out of the container and that it would be continuing on today. So, YAY! it should easily get to NGC by Monday. I had nervously run the tracking number a few times this morning and it must have just come out just a few minutes after we talked the first time or something. She said she'd had a list of ones she was watching for / tracking because she apparently has a few people making inquiries that a freaking out or in a near panic. I can't say I don't sympathize with them but hearing that did make me laugh a little. Misery loves company I suppose and it's nice to not be alone in your crazy. Side note but I am increasingly resigned to the fact that these coins are going to be away for... a... VERY. Long. Time. I am just increasingly glad, as the reasons add up (the long turnaround times, the price increase, this shipping delay...) that I did not drag my feet and I just got that box out. I'm increasingly convinced that, if I want to make another submission this year, and have confidence in it getting here by December, then I need to make something happen more in the March / Early April time frame. None of this is harshing NGC - I know they're working hard over there - just stating facts. Nothing is going to be fast this year; we're all going to have to have longer time horizons, and for some things, unless you're planning to pay extra for speed, the effective cut-off for the 2022 award season might be a lot earlier than some of us realize. I wonder if there's ever been a case of someone paying for Walkthrough service on something cheap and/or modern just to get something back super-quick to win something in the Registry. There could be a funny and amusing story out there. Also: It's worth noting that, in discussing this with Shandy, she also very much shared my concerns over this box last night and referred to them as "our coins."

Thanks for the reply. The idea had actually been to have them in flips in the page pockets, but it ultimately sent these out just in flips, rubber banded together in groups of 4-6. So should be good. Thank you again.

Really though? I'm sure it matters what exactly the legend says. I just think they look kinda cool. And the dates use Arabic numerals.

I opted not to go to the coin show this weekend. It wasn’t a week where I had Friday off and we have a crazy week coming up and I just mentally opted for a quieter weekend of getting chores done and hitting up a birthday party with the kids instead. But I thought I’d sit down and share a bit about my latest ~$20 tangent into the realm of, “well, that looks nifty!” One of the same dealers that I bought several raw Italian coins from also had some circa 1980 Chinese coins going as individual coins or as small lots of three and I decided to try for and win seven of them at a net cost of about $1 per coin. When they came in and I showed them to Shandy she asked if I got them because of her and because I thought she’d find them neat since she’d spent most of the last 2.5 years doing remote English lessons for Chinese children. I was honest in that I thought she might find them interesting for that reason, but I honestly just got them because I thought they looked neat and they worked as a stupid, fun, impulse buy for about what some people spend on a coffee. The funny thing I feel with these is, I’m not sure the coins are actually any more interesting than most other modern coins issued by the US or other countries that I tend to pass on, but they don’t immediately strike me as ugly (looking at you, Ukraine and Swaziland) and they are different enough from what I’m used to to make them interesting to stop and look at. I ended up with a bit of a mix with a 1 fen, 2 fen, three 5 fens, and two 1 Jiao (10 fen), with dates ranging from 1979 to about 1991. Much later - just recently - I decided to place an order from a dealer with a bunch of 1 fen, 2 fen, 5 fen and 1 Jiao coins in a variety of dates - listing most for $1 each with minimal per coin shipping fees if you were buying several coins. I haven’t gotten those in yet but I’m hoping the examples I get will look as nice as what was in the pictures and that the seller was being honest in saying that the coins would be packed to prevent them from damaging each other in shipment. I spent about $15 for 13 coins to broaden out the set a bit and have these fill up a 20-coin page in one of my binders. The seller also had some 5 Jiao coins but the pictures on those specifically left me doubting that the coins would look good in-hand. Those coins have a different metal composition, and the images make them look like they’d been stored or handled poorly. I will admit to having sat on and debated actually pulling the trigger on this purchase for several weeks even though the price and the images looked good just because the seller includes all sorts of language in the listing that I normally consider a red flag - they come off like a whiner and a drama-llama in a major way that has a victim-complex because some of their customers have apparently been mean to them about shipping times and not leaving feedback. Lol Anyway. I decided to take a shot in the dark and decided I was willing to risk $15 and the possibility of a longer wait on low-priority items and MAYBE some drama. We’ll see if, in about 2 weeks, I’m kicking myself for not listening to the warning signs and steering clear. I’m usually not TOO prickly about shipping times as long as it doesn’t seem like the seller dragged their feet shipping it out and I do actually leave feedback, so they shouldn’t end up hating me too much. So just an entry in the “Oh! Neat!” category and coins from another country to bore the kids with as they age. My wife is trying to convince me to start doing cruise reviews that are equal to the work I do on my coin and note sets... I'm not sold. I enjoy this. That sounds like work.

I got into the Zimbabwe notes seriously starting around 2015/2016 thinking it was dead and over and therefore the scope was limited, but, then when they started the bond notes and the new series ~2016 I couldn't not go for it. So now I have an open ended project there. But fortunately they only release 1-2 notes a year now. If we have another hyperinflation period with another 30-50 note year....

And why I threw up my hands and gave up on several some time ago. It becomes a joyless endeavor where-in you almost feel like the mints are just trolling you and laughing at you all the way to the bank.

I think if you're going to do call-outs Mike deserves equal or higher billing for his Ukrainian note collection. It definitely has similarities with coin collecting but it's different. With coins I can see the difference between a 64 and a 68 pretty easily but, with graded notes, I see essentially zero difference between a 64 and a 68. I can make an educated guess at grades with coins but when I submit notes it's shooting blind. NGC and coins places an emphasis on photos and there is a level of skill with photographing coins that you need to win Best Presented. Over on PMG, everyone seems to just use a scanner and we're all happy with that.

Thank you, Lisa! Based on USPS Tracking NGC should be in possession of the box either today or tomorrow. I've said this elsewhere but the price increase is well warranted and I thought quite restrained. I'd really been thinking Moderns might get bumped to an even $20 this year with inflation doing what it has been doing and with you folks having to pay out hiring bonuses, overtime, and paying to expand facilities.

Sorry to hear that. Hope it eases up soon.

Sounds like it'll be interesting when you're done.

I mean, if you get them out really fast I think the old pricing is honored if you get it to them by 2/1. Honestly though I think it's probably over-due that they increase pricing since obviously at the price they're charging there is WAYYY TOO MUCH demand for their services. And personally I think if it was worth it to submit at the old price it's still worth it after a 5% increase - their price increase is actually even below the current rate of inflation. It's awfully darn reasonable of them.

Yeah, I mean, I'd been speculating / pricing out what the impact on my cost would be if they'd upped it to $20/coin for moderns just because that would have been just a bit over a 10% increase and would have gotten them to a "round" number, so I was half expecting that was going to be what happened. So in some ways I'm a little surprised / happy to see a pretty "restrained" ~5% increase for moderns. But with $29 coins and a $3 increase in return shipping for up to 30 low-value coins, this increase would have hit me for an extra $32 that I'm just as happy to not pay. And... yeah... Submitting silver NCLT is a bit of a pig and a poke unless you're submitting NCLT that is at least 5-6 years old. Because milk spots, if they are going to show, usually show up by then. Usually. I'm gonna be honest in that I think I'm mostly done with Silver NCLT unless I'm buying already graded and it is at least 6 years old or I'm getting a really good price on it. At this point I'm just getting so much more joy out of self-submitting low-value moderns that only I care about.

Makes me think of some of my early versions of my set banner images for my 500 Lire set... but then Mike and Shandy convinced me to dial it back. Mike said people might forget the coins.

Well, after the email I got today about the grading fees and the shipping fees going up effective 2/1, I'm really even more happy I didn't drag my feet on getting these in the mail. Edited to add: I'll admit I had been holding these back a bit hoping for Jan 7th and hoping an award might help me cover the submission, but Shandy can also attest that I'd been estimating / looking at what the submission would cost at $18, $19, and $20/coin, fearing that waiting for a possible award might get me hit with a price increase.

I received an email today that indicated that prices were going up and that all boxes received on or after 2/1 would be subject to the higher fees. I mailed off a box on Friday the 14th that had the grading and the return shipping fees calculated based on the old pricing. It should arrive at NGC this week but, with the delays on opening incoming mail, I'm thinking the box probably won't be opened until after Valentine's Day. Am I correct in thinking that both the grading services and the return shipping will be handled at the old rate, even if you don't open my box until after 2/1?