GoldFinger1969

Not at all, I find him VERY honest. Go back and read his comments in the late-2022 CoinWeek interview about the 1985 Gold Type Set market grading time. You tell me if his analysis of the 'choices' is correct or not.

Where or how did you come up with those figures ? I don't doubt that many Proof/Mint sets were opened up and sold piece-mail for key dates or for a certain proof....but I agree with Kurt, I see TONS of these things at shows and many of them (most of them ?) are worth face value or original cost -- no appreciation whatsoever.

It's certainly a numismatic rarity from a collector's POV. Whoever had it -- it certainly wouldn't have had to be surrendered, either with the $100 gold limit and/or the numismatic exception, right ?

My understanding was that purchasing patterns was legal and customary since the late-1800's. Didn't Charles Barber have 8 of the MCMVII UHRs ?? I'm not sure if this letter would supersede that practice. Maybe, maybe not. At the same time these were happening, you had the legitimate transfer/purchase of the UHRs. Maybe because they were continued with the MCMVII HR and then the actual SG DEs it was different whereas these patterns never saw the light of day production-wise. But if this letter applies to the Superintendent it would surely apply to the Chief Engraver, right ?

Security for a show like that should probably cost about $5,000 a day. Spread over 200-400 dealers, it's not exorbitant.

Well, don't finger me, I wasn't even born yet !!

And yet I direct you to the late-2022 CoinWeek article with John Albanese in which he discusses how it was virtually IMPOSSIBLE to not market grade in 1985 when a particular Gold Type Set pulled a Ralph Kramden and went bang-zoom-to the Moon. You HAD to market grade or you basically went on sabatical for a few months or years -- or went out of business. That's not me saying that -- it's John Albanese himself who I think is a CRITIC of market grading -- and yet he says he understood why it happened, and not for any nefarious reasons. I wonder how much time CACG graders are spending per coin compared to the existing TPGs. You can't tell me that you can look closely for rub and unoriginal surfaces in the 10-15 seconds that these guys are allotted per coin. Not every human is a Mr. Spock, a Data, or even a Gary Kasparov or Bobby Fischer....our minds aren't machines that can act like clockwork for hours on end without making a mistake. Who are mustache and vazquez, never heard of them. I agree with the general thrust of your financialization argument -- I see it in the financial world with the proliferation of ETFs and other gambling-like instruments. But again, the "good" kind of market grading that Albanese described is at least understandable, if not forgiveable. At least the way he described it. I guess you could say I'm more for CONSISTENCY in grading as opposed to preferring either hardcore ANA grading or market grading.

Police should have an EASY time setting up a sting. Where's Henry Gondorff and Johnny Hooker when you need 'em ?

Roger, when did the Boston Museum sell the coin ?

I'm not sure about in this forum but over ATS they have had some doozies with back-and-forths by ex-graders and really knoweldgeable folks (not that we don't have them, too, just not in the quantity over there)...about wear, cabinet friction, rub, and friction. It's gotten more prominent and heated ever since CACG came on the scene and some coins went from initial grades of MS to AU under the CACG regime. I've learned alot, but if these experts and professionals can't agree on the definition -- or when it should come into play -- then how the heck can a lowly peon like me figure it out ?

Really ? HA too ? I would think they wouldn't accept large consignments because they don't want responsibility for them...it also might "cheapen" their brand...but if someone was a collector and had dozens or hundreds of certifified coins....I would have thought HA and GC might allow a few raws to be sold by them as an exception to the rule. Caveat Emptor, of course. No distinction between raw bullion vs. raw numismatic coins either, I presume ?

I haven't seen that, though at times seeing the imperfection on normal-sized 69's is VERY tough. A bit easier on those 5-ounce coins.

That's one of the things I LOVE about this hobby. Focusing on large-size U.S. coins -- Double Eagles, Morgans, etc. -- I have expanded my knowledge about the financial and economic times they were utilized. Maybe it's good that the more expensive coins have the more expansive history and stories behind them....it gives you time to save up to get more $$$ to buy your next one !! Seriously, for those coins involved in the gold and silver escapades of the Unite States, as well as their prominence in international trade, banking, and hoards....you have some great stories. Let us know if you pursue them.

Die breaks, die lines, die chips, die collapse -- were certain coins more susceptible to one or the other defects than others ? For instance, a large Double Eagle or Franklin Half vs. a Lincoln Cent or Roosevelt Dime ?

Where do you think this supply is located ? Is it stored in closets like my younger cousins 1980's and 1990's baseball cards ? Was this a case of they simply struck too many of these things and there's an endless supply like those mint and proof sets that we all got in the 1960's and 1970's ? If the holders of these coins are NOT numismatists...if they don't follow trends....then couldn't this supply take DECADES to come out as individuals (accidentally) learn it is/might be valuable ? Or their estates liquidate ? Or their heirs do ?

You guys think this pattern is accidentally in someone's collection ? Or that someone knowingly has it and doesn't want to divulge ownership -- maybe beause he/she thinks it will be confiscated ?

Do we have an estimate of how long they suspended work ? Are we talking weeks....months....what ?

It might not be a markteting success, but I don't think it's "one of the most horrific errors in the history of numismatics." Not by a longshot. Didn't NGC have a Green Label program for some other submissions a few years ago ?

Well, this isn't a commemorative like my other post but I'm not spending this to get $50.

Is that necessary today with 27" Hi-Def monitors available for $200 ? I get that you didn't have that option when they filmed "Marathon Man" with Laurence Olivier and Dustin Hoffman in 1976, but you get realistic pictures without the cost.

Is this a PCGS production only, or joint with NGC ? You're more likely to see liberally graded Liberty Head DEs over Saint-Gaudens DEs, IMO....especially for the dates with scarcity.

From Doug Winters Blog: "....Considered as a whole, the biggest losers among the entire Liberty Head $20 series were neither the rarities nor the common dates - they were the issues in between, i.e., the better dates, but not the best dates. These include several of the T1 $20s and the relatively more common Carson City issues. These scarce-but-not-rare issues were the ones that were most heavily “Fairmonted.” For the most part, the prices for the rarities did not respond at all to the appearance of the double eagles from the Fairmont Collection. This is, perhaps, no surprise, as it quickly became evident that there were few, if any, of the important rarities among the Fairmont double eagles - for example, there were no 1854-O, 1856-O, or 1861 Paquet reverse coins."

Any new thoughts on CACG grading ?

$2,240 today on the COMEX...new high....what was a spike in price a few months ago today is easily surpassed. Super-bullish longer-term. I think time-wise we are about 1974 or 1975 with years of higher prices ahead of us. The SLOWER and more INCREMENTAL this bull market, the longer and higher it goes, IMO.

Do we have a picture of this defect ?