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Especially when they are ...dripping... with luster. I had to take a few more pix to ...try... to get the luster right. Didn't quite succeed. But it's a fave. I looked long and hard for a nice Pan-Pac half dollar.

If it weren't safe, people wouldn't put valuable pieces at risk by sending them in--at least to the big three. Can't speak for JGS (Joe's Grading Service) shops, but NGC, PCGS, and ANACS all know what they are doing. How you handle safety with regard to shipment, of course, is your call.

MS66+ (w/green bean)

Buyers just adjust their bids to pay whatever they planned. Seller presumably got well over 100% of hammer for a coin like this one. It's evident from the price level that very few US collectors who can afford to buy the "mega priced" coins will seriously compete for it. Apparently Hansen didn't buy it and at least two PCGS forum members who are understood to be able to do so admitted they did not either. Through a process of elimination, I'd guess the buyer could be narrowed down to a very small number, unless lightning actually struck and a non-collector bought it. If they did, it's still almost certainly a US based buyer like Weitzman (who was not a random buyer anyway). Not many coin collectors outside the US are likely able to afford it it but even if they can, aren't about to pay more for any US coin over their own, unless they believe misleading industry hype. Yes, but most of what you describe is more a function of the current asset mania. It's a headed for a crash landing "eventually" and when it does, their will be no bidders or buyers for these inflated luxuries (coin or otherwise) at anything close to current prices, at least measured in relative value. My opinion is based upon the 1822's AU-50 grade. If it were an MS-66 or a grade near it like so many other "mega priced" coins, I think the 1822 would have sold for a lot more than the 1933 DE will realize. As a circulated coin, the only contender seems to be the unique variety of the Brasher doubloon but the recent price of the more common Partrick coin leads me to believe it would sell for less than it did last time.

This is just one I found on google

Not worth $65 to find out it is worth 25c Yes it would be nice to know ? I have checked around it has been seen before but know one is quite sure about it.

Yes that's why Kurt was banned.

Or if you try to open a thread that has been deleted or moved to an opt in section. There are a half dozen or so of them. Yes but typically not immediately. Normally it would take several violations. Or by reading the rules. Most who get banned are due to repeated violations of the printed rules. And CT usually gives warning about violations and does give people timeouts too, not just immediate bans usually unless violations are especially egregious. Such as Kurt's threat to sue them.

Don't think it is a MAD or a DDO but it is severely deteriorated pair of dies. They should have been retired long before they struck this coin.

You would probably really break down over "Atheist" cents. They come on many different years as well.

If I may, gentlemen... I applied, was accepted expeditiously -- and decided to try a new tack: sit back quietly, listen and observe, but refrain from making any comments. My impression of CT is it is a serious site for serious members. The Q and A there is conducted with surgical precision with zero tolerance for deviation [of the type regularly engaged in by me] which for the most part, I must admit, is tolerated within limits by the moderators here. The big difference -- make that big, BIG AND BOLD -- is here members who play bumper cars inevitably breach an invisible wall or ceiling and are guided by the application of sanctions which are intended to deter further violations. Here, a member such as myself, is given chances to recover. There, the only way to define borders is by breaching them, intentionally or not, with no trial by compurgation, a commutation of sentence, a review, notice, warning, appeal or reprieve. Is that the actions of certified skeezer, shysters or scammers? No. IMHO, it is not. No one would engage in a practice that is self-defeating. Apparently, that approach works for CoinTalk. Any suggestion that self-immolation is or might be productive, makes no sense. I was banned from CT. I believe there was a measure of justification in the verdict rendered.

And idiotic post would be asking if one could purchase a Saint-Gaudens for 25% below bullion spot. But that doesn't warrant a suspension or ban.

Violating TOS means you get tossed out! Idiotic posts can and will be used against you. Not that I would know anything about that.

I was just hoping that it may pass as a four FS coin and it would have been a high dollar coin. As i have learned this go round of grading, even one that you know is 5 FS does not even get any steps noted. I have no more to grade, it was just a big " I HOPE" kind of thing. But you are correct, it's not worth what i have in it.

It is just good fun finding all the stuff that is out there, and on the chance you do find a keeper well ....YAHOO.... if not just keep looking on....Like this silly one? Is it for real or someone's handy work.

QA is a good man.

Nice coin, nice design. C. Barber was capable of interesting design work, he just rarely did so. PS: What happened to the Goddess' elbows? Did this Goddess lack "funny bones?"

Thanks! Sometimes he got a little overly enthusiastic; anyway, the estimates are 9 years old.

QA you are an eloquent orator if i do say so myself.

Whaaaaat?

Looks like the serif of the D took a hit, as did the steps below.

Once it gets to the TPG it's safe. The risk is between you and the TPG and that risk depends on how it is shipped. And you can remove 99.9+% of that risk by shipping Registered. Then your biggest risk will be getting into an accident on the way to the post office.

I have made the ultimate decision to send this dime to NGC for a decision as far as either MAD percentage or if it is a DDO. For anyone interested in the outcome, follow this post.

Get insurance, because the crooked workers at USPS/FedX/UPS have clearly determined that packages going to PCGS and NGC are valuable coins.

People send coins worth thousands, tens of thousands, and I’m betting they are not driving them to Florida. NGC has graded over 49 million coins! I think it’s safe. I use priority mail with adequate insurance and tracking, but I have sent coins regular first class too.

I should be one to talk... Have to admit I became totally enamored of a coin from Venezuela for no particular reason that I can recall, outbid 30 to 40 other presumably serious collectors for something I did not need and no longer want. Your coin is special for a number of reasons beginning with the high grade. Your point is well taken. I apologize for the over-the-top response.

QA, if you don’t mind me using that, (I can’t type Latin). Funny story, I sent five coins to grading, one just for snicks. It was a 2000p Sacagawea first day cover that I had for 21 years complete with postage stamps etc. NGC charged me , posted the status as graded and shipped, but no grade? So I opened the package, and it came back to me just as I sent it. after contacting support a couple times about it, NGC agreed to ship it back at their expense, two day air, and indicated they should have slabbed it and instructed me how to resubmit with detailed instructions. I haven’t seen it show up in submission, but assume since they agreed to slab it, that they will. At the end, I will have a pretty worthless MS. But it will be the only one I have. I’ll post when I finally get it back.

The only thing NGC has on Coin Explorer is This....Here. "Though this issue is plentiful from uncirculated rolls and bags saved at the time, the 1959 Philadelphia Mint half dollar is surprisingly scarce in grades above MS-65. There are two possible reasons for this high grade rarity. Always considered a common issue, 1959(P) was not widely sought as single coins for many decades after being made, and frequent trading by the $50 face value bag led to the coins suffering frequent contact with one another. In addition, the U. S. Mint abandoned its cardboard Uncirculated Set holders that often imparted attractive toning to earlier dates in this series. The 1959 and later sets have instead been housed within plastic and thus never attained pleasing coloration that can boost their grades a point or two. Like the 1958(P) halves, this issue may be found coined with a reverse die used previously to strike proofs. These are distinguished by the sharp eagle figure, and examples form a minority of the 1959(P) circulating edition. One reverse die was hubbed from both the proof and currency hubs. This resulted in the eagle showing the sharp figure overlapping the weak, and it is a highly prized variety (FS-801)."

The newer cents are very susceptible to zinc bubbles due to their composition. It looks like zinc bubbles. If not they are die chips. Either way not an error.

I should be one to talk... Have to admit I became totally enamored of a coin from Venezuela for no particular reason that I can recall, outbid 30 to 40 other presumably serious collectors for something I did not need and no longer want. Your coin is special for a number of reasons beginning with the high grade. Your point is well taken. I apologize for the over-the-top response.

Sometimes you just want one for the novelty, take the roll to the bank and then buy a graded one and save money in the process. For instance, I just bought a 1979 S proof Dcam pr69 Susan B Anthony NGC for $19. Why? I didn’t have one!

I don't think 4FS is a thing any TPG recognizes let alone pull a premium when it sells. Beautiful coin by the way, must be a real looker in hand.

[Whether they be burnished or came fully furnished -- garnished, roasted or toasted, consider the costs involved.]

Holy cow! Money Laundering! Oops, there it is! Seriously, my federal offense was far more felonious. A single keystroke "liking" a post of a member (with considerable clout, evidently) over there, who had given me, and millions of viewers here, formal, official notice that he was henceforth and forevermore "ignoring" me. In an eye blink, I ceased to exist. I have to admit it made me feel very important. 😉

[Theoretically possible, but having immersed myself in the writings and audible musings of VKurtB, a long-time collector with an intimate working knowledge of this very subject, I am inclined to believe finding an example at the highest grades possible is highly unlikely on the circulation as opposed to numismatic line. To my knowledge, I believe VKurtB is the only member with the gumption to question why proof coins are being graded at all. And the inherent risk of experiencing the gut-wrenching agony of defeat on the roulette table of opinions cannot ever justify the sum total of all the incidental expenses involved.]

I do appreciate the review. Feedback is essential. Between the two webinars and this blog I think I have exhausted the varieties topic from my perspective Just waiting now for the 6th edition CPG and the resumption of coin shows!

Two things to keep in mind on top of these have low collector appeal: 1. Just because they are rolled, even if not circulated, doesn’t mean they will necessarily grade better than low/mid MS. These coins take a beating after striking and in the bags. Possible some grade high but by no means a guarantee. 2. Just because this is rolled doesn’t mean it hasn’t been circulated. They re roll coins all the time for banks. You can carefully open the roll and take a look. No prize for it still being in the roll so you can inspect them. You lose nothing if you are careful.

Lemme try a movie.

This looks more like a DDO than a MAD. I simply can't imagine this is worth just face value. I am considering having it authenticated by NGC and save it for the future, should more come about and it gets accepted as a DDO or other currently unknown error. I would rather have it graded and preserved than put in a 2x2 or generic capsule and have it tone or fade over time.

OK.. back from shot 1! Here are some comments on your comments! 1) There are fewer Saint collectors than Morgan Collectors because of the cost of the coins. So yes, fewer variety collectors as well. But that's no reason why they should be less studied or less interesting. Since Collecting a set of Saints is out of the question for all but the most well heeled, I would argue that studying the varieties allows a type collector some affordable options other than one or two "normal" generics. 2) What I said was there have been (excluding the overdate which is generally not considered a "variety") around 1,500 total Saints of the other varieties slabbed and attributed (the variety specified on the label) so far in total by both PCGS and NGC. 3) Yes, the "HA"'s in Roger's book breakdown that way, though I'm not sure Roger was the architect of the scheme used by heritage. (Why not RB numbers?) ... anyway the term Variety in the book is fairly broad as it encompasses things like different mintmark "styles". I basically tallied the appearances of HA #'s as used in the book without too much editorial comment. 4) the key observation: that the CPG is the key that opens the door to major TPG attribution. 5) Agree, though I have been watching the numbers climb (and collecting myself) since well before Roger's book. Rogers SGDE's, however should have a significant impact, both in terms of the number of coin attributed, as well as the number of varieties collected, going forward. 6) A variety is probably the "only" reason (other than just authentication) to get a sub mint state saint slabbed, as only the variety characteristic is likely to generate any interest in the coin... unless of course it is one of the key rarities! 7) Yes...yes... 8) My research says yes and most price guides show a slightly higher price for the overdate. 9) They are ALL "legit"! (but only those six CPG Varieties get most of the headlines, as they are the only ones your average dealer may be aware of...which is why adding 5 more in the 6th edition is very significant) 10) yes and there are a few others on Dave's Variety Plus Page that NGC will also slab (grade & attribute). 11) I just think it is amazing it wasn't noticed in almost 100 years! Perhaps it was or mischaracterized as a damaged coin. It's pretty clear that with 5 coins found with the identical markings, it is DIE damage, not coin damage one is seeing. Also the markings being in the fields (lowest points on the coin, highest on the die, really proves the point. Kudos to Roger for spotting that elephant in the variety room! 12) I have been looking everywhere... Auction archives, auction catalogs, coin shows, both auction rooms and dealer tables. I think Roger has had some greater access to Heritage materials and high grade coins to review but he can speak to that. We use what we can find. 13) The overdate is a "standout", no question. Anything involving the date always gets alot of attention in the variety world. But the 1924 DDPO with the "doubled gown" is impressive in that many have been found and attributed despite not being in the CPG. Again, fame is a function of multiple factors and can be influenced just be inclusion in the CPG for example. There is no question that the '24 DDO is an important Saint variety in my mind. 14) They are coming from a historical perspective that has not rewarded (think $$$$) knowledge or mention of large gold coin varieties... but things change over time. I believe I am seeing it. It may not be now (or ever) that dramatic, but the genie is out of the box so to speak... No one can call themselves knowledgeable on the Saint Double Eagles going forward that isn't familiar with at least SOME of this information... 15) Considered by who? Everyone! Why? Separate entry in the Red book would be my guess, and because overdates generally are treated that way... but in reality it is first and foremost a Die Variety, as evidenced by inclusion in the CPG! The 55 double die cent is perhaps also considered a "separate coin" in the same way. It is a measure of the coins collectibility (think popularity), rather than a physical characteristic. Again, the '55 cent is a variety as well as a "separate coin" in the lincoln series. in that case, the "hole in the whitman blue folder for the 55 DDO is probably what put it on the map! Whitman is GOD when iot comes to this stuff. (Did I mention that they publish the CPG as well as the Red Book?!) 16) I doubt it personally, as they are not too rare, particularly in higher mint state coins, but the evidence I produced for the video is not my judgement, but that of others. It illustrates that the universe of interest, market action, and engagement with these coins in expanding, perhaps by fits and starts, and somewhat unpredictably... but expanding nonetheless.

Better dig you out a little bigger rat hole my friend.

Just logged in to CoinTalk, and this is the response I got: "(You have insufficient privileges to reply here.)" I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I'm an architect, part-time. Tried to become a City Planner but it just didn't work.

Hey, I, too, am a Seinfeld fan.. 😎

Sarcasm, irony, condescension, gruff writing, obscure references, weird metaphors -- you'll find them ALL here in the NGC Forums. It can be a bit distracting at times when you are looking for a simple answer to a coin question and you get a few posts back-and-forth that are off-tangent on something you don't even understand. At least if it was about the NFL or NCAA brackets you'd be able to follow along. As for me, I keep it simple and straight....the weirdest you'll get from me is Seinfeld references.

Didn't "clog up the works." Although tough to pull out the various coins. Are these sample you're sending out for free -- post paid?

I enjoy his posts. He is one of the few who prompts me to get out my dictionary 🙂

That's not a DDR. It's just strike doubling. You can see examples of it here: https://www.ngccoin.com/pdf/US_Coin_Die_Varieties.pdf

How cruel!