Michael Byrne

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Changing Our Coinage

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MIKE BYRNE

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Hi everyone. I'm also a member of the ANA. We have some very good and smart collectors. We have kids that you don't have here with I believe is good. Now I have been there a while. And I  have read fifty blogs here there journals. And fifty forums that's were you ask a question of ask for help. Now these one hundred combined blogs and forums all what to change this and change that. Well here are some figures according to the Treasury Department of they made a dollar coin they would lose 23 million a year for the next ten years. If they get rid of the cent ten million a year for the next ten years. 

 

Now I'm tired of answering this. For every action there is a reaction. Just because other countries change their coinage don't mean we do. Most are socialist countries anyway. We're different were a democracy. We have to work on a budget funny but even the socialist countries have their Presidents or Queens or Dictators on it. Get rid of the cent. Civics. What happens to the employees . Gone. What happens to the truckers and railways that deliverd these gone. If you buy something for 1.99 be ready to pay 2.05. They would up the price not go down. Everyone is an expert. This is a good one get rid of the Presidents on our coinage. And put what? These men keep us free so we can enjoy this hobby  they represent this country so do you know proof sets and Silver sets used to be given to Presidents and Dignitaries of other countries?. And to there children because we make the best circulated money in the world..

We  could but many different things on our the change. Bugs. Animals. Sun shines other famous people who come out on commens.I just wish I could read a blog or or a journal were these experts had done there homework.  Where they have what happens facts of what happen if this is changed. Most would be a major loss over a ten year period. Tell me what happens to those with families who get laid off. How much it would cost for new dies. How about our price going up? Look at the whole picture not one part of it.Many say we should change the dollar. No, tell me why and give me numbers. How about all the vending machiens ? They would have to be changed. I want the whole picture with facts on everything including the people who make our coinage and deliver it. The increase in what we pay. Then write you expert opinion. I'm no.expert I just know what they tell me . The people in charge with all the figures. And I know everyone will not like the new designs. Then they will say that's not what I want I wanted something else. Think it over. Change the rules now at the mint.  Go ahead and dream. Then write. Thanks Mike

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The elimination of the Cent in Canada seems to have succeeded by minimizing disruption and cost to individual Canadian consumers. 

This article on the RCM website provides some information about how Rounding Up or Down effects consumers on two typical transactions. 

https://www.mint.ca/store/mint/about-the-mint/rounding-6900008#.XKY8TKB7kdU

A more general article about the reasons for eliminating the Cent in Canada:

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/brett-caron/lost-penny-day-canada_b_14681516.html

And finally an opinion piece from a Canadian website:

https://www.cantechletter.com/2016/03/getting-rid-canadian-penny-good-idea/

Hope this helps provide you with more ammunition to counter the Anti-Cents people. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Wow.......political much?  I thought we weren't supposed to get political on here.  I think we could talk about potential changes to American coinage without promoting American Exceptionalism.  I'm reporting this one to the mods.

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18 hours ago, Mokiechan said:

The elimination of the Cent in Canada seems to have succeeded by minimizing disruption and cost to individual Canadian consumers. 

This article on the RCM website provides some information about how Rounding Up or Down effects consumers on two typical transactions. 

https://www.mint.ca/store/mint/about-the-mint/rounding-6900008#.XKY8TKB7kdU

A more general article about the reasons for eliminating the Cent in Canada:

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/brett-caron/lost-penny-day-canada_b_14681516.html

And finally an opinion piece from a Canadian website:

https://www.cantechletter.com/2016/03/getting-rid-canadian-penny-good-idea/

Hope this helps provide you with more ammunition to counter the Anti-Cents people. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your comment. This is just my opinion the more comments the better perspective we get. That's what I like discussion. I just like our coinage. When I saw the figures in Coin World they seem to know allot about profit and losses. I can't answer for the Treasury Department just me I like it that's all. Thanks for your your comment. Mike

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14 hours ago, Mohawk said:

Wow.......political much?  I thought we weren't supposed to get political on here.  I think we could talk about potential changes to American coinage without promoting American Exceptionalism.  I'm reporting this one to the mods.

Nothing political. Just my opinion on our coinge. Collectors have been a commenting for years about it. It gets the discussion going. No not political and not personal just an  opinion like  I said before it's a discussing it generates conversation. Some what change others don't . It's that simple. So thanks for your your comment all is welcome and encouraging. I just like our coinage it will change it always does. I'm sure change is coming. Thanks for your opinion Mike

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No presidents were on our coinage for the first 116 years of the Mint's history. Lincoln replaced the Indian on the cent in 1909. Washington showed up on the quarter in 1932, which was originally supposed to be a one-year commemorative issue but was adopted for good in 1934.

The guidance for coin design in the late 1800's / early 1900's was to issue a new design for each denomination at approximately 25 year intervals. Liberty and Buffalo nickels, Barber dimes, quarters and halves, Mercury dimes, Standing Liberty quarters and Walking Liberty halves all roughly followed this practice, and made very collectible series with well-defined start and end points.  I think a total re-do on our coinage would be a good thing. As great as Lincoln, Jefferson and Washington were, 80+ years on the same coin is too much.  

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Nice article on your opinion Mike. I don't see this as political. Everybody, please relax. Quit looking for problems. Why is this apolitical article? Change my mind. Debate different ideas with facts. That is what this is about. Thanks. My opinion.

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2 hours ago, CBC said:

No presidents were on our coinage for the first 116 years of the Mint's history. Lincoln replaced the Indian on the cent in 1909. Washington showed up on the quarter in 1932, which was originally supposed to be a one-year commemorative issue but was adopted for good in 1934.

The guidance for coin design in the late 1800's / early 1900's was to issue a new design for each denomination at approximately 25 year intervals. Liberty and Buffalo nickels, Barber dimes, quarters and halves, Mercury dimes, Standing Liberty quarters and Walking Liberty halves all roughly followed this practice, and made very collectible series with well-defined start and end points.  I think a total re-do on our coinage would be a good thing. As great as Lincoln, Jefferson and Washington were, 80+ years on the same coin is too much.  

Thanks for your comment. Like I said it's my opinion the Treasury Department.has the figures. So if they haven't been on our coinage and currency all that long  they should be in there longer. It will change when the government sees fit not when I say or anyone else. This is not in our hands. The public can't change it Congress does and how long has it been since Jefferson was supposed to come of the twenty dollar bill? Thanks again . I appreciate it Mike.

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Mike, I didn't get the political spin in your post so I agree with longstrider that there doesn't seem to be any. That said, I do have strong opinions on this topic. I personally like Lady Liberty on our coins as a national personification. However, I know there is not enough public support or political will to go back to that. In its place the mint has tried to extend an olive branch to collectors by giving them the gold liberty, the platinum themed Liberty, classic designs on bullion coins, and the retro St. Gaudens Double Eagle, Mercury Dime, Standing Liberty Quarter, and walking Liberty Half. As for change, nothing can stop it, be it in the work place or the treasury department. What we must do is learn to adapt to change and roll with it. The work force of 2019 is much different than 1976 when I turned 18. Even in the cellular phone industry in which I worked for close to 23 years I went through four generations of cell phones, each generation radically different than the previous generation. Without the ability for me to adapt and learn I would not have made it. We are working with technologies today that were not even dreamed about when I was a kid. The days of my father working at the same job in a factory for 25 years are gone. We're never going back to that. Change is the only constant, we must accept that to move forward. For now I'll take whatever the mint has to offer in terms of Lady Liberty on collector coins. If I like what they offer, I'll buy it, if not, I won't. Life with contentment is good...Gary

Edited by gherrmann44

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Guess I was too sensitive about the tone of this entry according to some members.  I didn't like how you were throwing the word socialism around like it was a dirty word and the implication that countries who have a socialist system are beneath the US in some way along some other things about this entry.  I'll just stay off your journals going forward.  That's the best solution, I think.

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Guess I was too sensitive about the tone of this entry according to some members.  I didn't like how you were throwing the word socialism around like it was a dirty word and the implication that countries who have a socialist system are beneath the US in some way along some other things about this entry.  I'll just stay off your journals going forward.  That's the best solution, I think.

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3 minutes ago, Mohawk said:

Guess I was too sensitive about the tone of this entry according to some members.  I didn't like how you were throwing the word socialism around like it was a dirty word and the implication that countries who have a socialist system are beneath the US in some way along some other things about this entry.  I'll just stay off your journals going forward.  That's the best solution, I think.

  • All l was  trying to say that in a country like ours we can't change anything in countries like Great Britain and Canada there process is different.I was  not knocking any other countries. Just trying to say other countries do things different from us. That's all. We have a Congress that makes our changes. Others dont. I think you just read to much into it or didn't say it right. Sorry for the error. I mean the people of this country should have more of a say.that's all. We did get close with the twenty but that tell threw other countries its different this is not political it's about changing our currency and that's it. If on offense you I apologize if wasn't ment that way. Take care I respect you opinion and feelings next time I will be clearer . Take care Mike

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If you think, Mohawk, that Mikes journal blog is political and anti socialism, maybe you should stay off his journals. What happened to free speech on a COIN blog? I guess my blogs are out too. That's O.K..Nothing personal meant here. Just my opinion. I like Mikes coin blogs.

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1 hour ago, Mohawk said:

Guess I was too sensitive about the tone of this entry according to some members.  I didn't like how you were throwing the word socialism around like it was a dirty word and the implication that countries who have a socialist system are beneath the US in some way along some other things about this entry.  I'll just stay off your journals going forward.  That's the best solution, I think.

Know problem. I do not put any countries down. I was born in Ireland. But I'm a proud American nothing wrong with being proud in a country here we have so many freedoms. I studied to be a Catholic Priest a Missionary I would be in the terrible ways some people are forced to live in I just wanted to help as many as I could. I respect life everywhere always will this is only about coins. That's the bottom line. Thanks again as always I respect all opinions and always will. Thanks take care. Mike

 

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5 hours ago, gherrmann44 said:

I know there is not enough public support or political will to go back to that. In its place the mint has tried to extend an olive branch to collectors by giving them the gold liberty, the platinum themed Liberty, classic designs on bullion coins, and the retro St. Gaudens Double Eagle, Mercury Dime, Standing Liberty Quarter, and walking Liberty Half. As for change, nothing can stop it, be it in the work place or the treasury department. What we must do is learn to adapt to change and roll with it.

 I am not so sure the American Public cares that much about the designs on our minor coinage.  These days, with debit cards, apple pay, and even apps like grubhub, folks are just not using less and less currency or coins all the time.  I think maybe a gradual change in designs, say starting with the Dime, would be basically unnoticed by the public.  After all, we have changed the Jefferson Nickel quite a bit, we have been going for 20 years plus with new quarter reverses every year, and we even chanced the reverse of the venerable Cent in 2009/2010.  So change is is entirely possible especially with new blood at the Mint and active lobbying by CCAC members (which I know for a fact is occurring). 

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22 minutes ago, Mokiechan said:

 I am not so sure the American Public cares that much about the designs on our minor coinage.  These days, with debit cards, apple pay, and even apps like grubhub, folks are just not using less and less currency or coins all the time.  I think maybe a gradual change in designs, say starting with the Dime, would be basically unnoticed by the public.  After all, we have changed the Jefferson Nickel quite a bit, we have been going for 20 years plus with new quarter reverses every year, and we even chanced the reverse of the venerable Cent in 2009/2010.  So change is is entirely possible especially with new blood at the Mint and active lobbying by CCAC members (which I know for a fact is occurring). 

Good point!

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7 hours ago, MIKE BYRNE said:

Know problem. I do not put any countries down. I was born in Ireland. But I'm a proud American nothing wrong with being proud in a country here we have so many freedoms. I studied to be a Catholic Priest a Missionary I would be in the terrible ways some people are forced to live in I just wanted to help as many as I could. I respect life everywhere always will this is only about coins. That's the bottom line. Thanks again as always I respect all opinions and always will. Thanks take care. Mike

 

You summed up why I was bothered........life isn't one size fits all, and what works for one person, or group of people, or society may not work for another.  I felt like the ways other societies work were being put down, that's all.  As someone who has degrees in historical studies and who teaches Modern World History at the college level, I'm sensitive to things like that and find it to be a dangerous way to think.  Some of history's worst atrocities have been committed by those who think their way of life is the only way, so they go out and attempt to force their way on others.  So I responded to this in the way I first interpreted it.  You say you didn't mean it that way.  That's fine and I accept it.  Though I will stay away from your journals and threads going forward.......I think you and I are way too different to have much in the way of positive discourse and I also find that to be true of others who have responded here.  I did want to respond this last time, however, because you did respond to me in a respectful way and I wanted to respond to your respectful response in a respectful way as well.  Like I said, life isn't one size fits all and that's one of the main tenets I live my life by.  But I also know when people are too different in certain ways to be able to get along in the long term, which is what we have with you and me and likely me and some of the others who follow your blog and respond to it.  But you guys can have your US thread back without anything further from me.......I'll go back to my Roman coins and enjoy them with my fellow ancient people and leave you US guys to it. 

Thanks for the well thought out and respectful response.  I was honestly and pleasantly surprised to receive such a reply to this one. 

Edited by Mohawk

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18 hours ago, gherrmann44 said:

Mike, I didn't get the political spin in your post so I agree with longstrider that there doesn't seem to be any. That said, I do have strong opinions on this topic. I personally like Lady Liberty on our coins as a national personification. However, I know there is not enough public support or political will to go back to that. In its place the mint has tried to extend an olive branch to collectors by giving them the gold liberty, the platinum themed Liberty, classic designs on bullion coins, and the retro St. Gaudens Double Eagle, Mercury Dime, Standing Liberty Quarter, and walking Liberty Half. As for change, nothing can stop it, be it in the work place or the treasury department. What we must do is learn to adapt to change and roll with it. The work force of 2019 is much different than 1976 when I turned 18. Even in the cellular phone industry in which I worked for close to 23 years I went through four generations of cell phones, each generation radically different than the previous generation. Without the ability for me to adapt and learn I would not have made it. We are working with technologies today that were not even dreamed about when I was a kid. The days of my father working at the same job in a factory for 25 years are gone. We're never going back to that. Change is the only constant, we must accept that to move forward. For now I'll take whatever the mint has to offer in terms of Lady Liberty on collector coins. If I like what they offer, I'll buy it, if not, I won't. Life with contentment is good...Gary

I always respect your option . You I known each other a long time. I don't know.what changes will be made I know that no one can agree on what they want. That said it's not up to us it's up to Congress and CACC. Sending out designs on the net maybe someday I know . So it doesn't concern me. I wish they would publish the designs on the net and let usbchoose choose many different designs. Still we won't make everyone  happy . Thanks my friend.Mike

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"We have to work on a budget"

Uh...the United States has no budget. We are growing the national debt every hour, becoming more in tangled into the London Bankers Web of Deception. 

"What happens to the truckers and railways that deliverd these gone."

As far as the Railroad, they will still function...there is only one way to haul the Heaviest Freight and at a constant speed...Union Pacific Mainline protected by the Dept. Of Defense for several reasons. 

 "If you buy something for 1.99 be ready to pay 2.05"

Your Exactly Right about that, the amount of Money rounded up can cause a hyper inflationary environment, very dangerous to eliminate the Cent.

"Tell me what happens to those with families who get laid off"

It's very difficult, we've had to Survive before and do without till better jobs were earned, many sleepless nights, coin collecting put on hold, many coins sold...life deals some bad hands Brother.

I feel your Pain. I understand what you're saying..it's hard to stay positive. New designs should be in place...always...

It seems tougher these days as I blame the Bankers...the next time they mess up...and they have been...we will pay for it. The bail in...ie, negative interest rates is spreading from Japan like a virus...

I see the Day when Gold and Silver coins will be used in commerce again...bad money always pushes the good money out....peace 

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14 hours ago, Mohawk said:

You summed up why I was bothered........life isn't one size fits all, and what works for one person, or group of people, or society may not work for another.  I felt like the ways other societies work were being put down, that's all.  As someone who has degrees in historical studies and who teaches Modern World History at the college level, I'm sensitive to things like that and find it to be a dangerous way to think.  Some of history's worst atrocities have been committed by those who think their way of life is the only way, so they go out and attempt to force their way on others.  So I responded to this in the way I first interpreted it.  You say you didn't mean it that way.  That's fine and I accept it.  Though I will stay away from your journals and threads going forward.......I think you and I are way too different to have much in the way of positive discourse and I also find that to be true of others who have responded here.  I did want to respond this last time, however, because you did respond to me in a respectful way and I wanted to respond to your respectful response in a respectful way as well.  Like I said, life isn't one size fits all and that's one of the main tenets I live my life by.  But I also know when people are too different in certain ways to be able to get along in the long term, which is what we have with you and me and likely me and some of the others who follow your blog and respond to it.  But you guys can have your US thread back without anything further from me.......I'll go back to my Roman coins and enjoy them with my fellow ancient people and leave you US guys to it. 

Thanks for the well thought out and respectful response.  I was honestly and pleasantly surprised to receive such a reply to this one. 

I was born in a socialist country which i am proud of my heritage. I did not mention third world they need our help and help from others. Well it's about coins everyone has an opinion. You did not offend me. I started collecting in 1995 when an 82 year old man driving a truck broad sided my company car I was unconscious for three months. I still suffer today if not for my neurosurgeons one who  collected coins. He said it would slow the dementia it worked for a while.Coins kept me going. To a point where I had to stop collecting. He also fractured three bones between two and three so I'm home bound. My job my college education gone in a second. My wife left because 65% of men wit brain damage there wives leave them. I lost everything but I fight back everyday. I have the ANA and NGC to keep me going. I learned along time ago never never put anyone down you treat people with respect that's meqns no matter were they live. Thanks again have a good one. Did you see the set of tokens I put together from Britain? One of a kind. Enjoy have a great weekend. Mike

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5 hours ago, Numismatic, A.A.S. said:

"

 "If you buy something for 1.99 be ready to pay 2.05"

Your Exactly Right about that, the amount of Money rounded up can cause a hyper inflationary environment, very dangerous to eliminate the Cent.

 

The Canadians do not round up any transaction involving debit/credit or similar things.  If you buy one single item using cash in Canada, you will suffer the roundup.  If you buy a whole grocery cart (two or more items) using cash, then the final price is rounded up.  Your $.99 Cent candy bar becomes a $1 candy bar when you use cash, your $189.54 Dollar Costco purchase become 189.55 if you use Cash.  So the hyper inflationary trends you referenced are dampened considerably and since most transaction in the USA are done without actual cash changing hands, then we should have a similar dampening effect as long as we use the same protocols. 

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6 hours ago, MIKE BYRNE said:

I was born in a socialist country which i am proud of my heritage. I did not mention third world they need our help and help from others. Well it's about coins everyone has an opinion. You did not offend me. I started collecting in 1995 when an 82 year old man driving a truck broad sided my company car I was unconscious for three months. I still suffer today if not for my neurosurgeons one who  collected coins. He said it would slow the dementia it worked for a while.Coins kept me going. To a point where I had to stop collecting. He also fractured three bones between two and three so I'm home bound. My job my college education gone in a second. My wife left because 65% of men wit brain damage there wives leave them. I lost everything but I fight back everyday. I have the ANA and NGC to keep me going. I learned along time ago never never put anyone down you treat people with respect that's meqns no matter were they live. Thanks again have a good one. Did you see the set of tokens I put together from Britain? One of a kind. Enjoy have a great weekend. Mike

Wow....you've really been through a lot.  I've been told before that you never know what someone else may be going through, and I'm definitely having one of those moments with you right now.  I'm very sorry all of that has happened to you, I really am.  I see that coins have been a lifeline for you and that you have waged a difficult and brave struggle and that you continue to do so everyday.  It's admirable and a lot of people would have just given up.  But you didn't.  Knowing this about you now, it puts some things in a different perspective.  Coins have been a lifeline for me, too, though in a different way.  And we both love coins, so we do have that in common.  I did take a look at your British tokens, and I found that collection of yours to be very enjoyable.  Sorry I was so sensitive about you initial post and I'm glad that I didn't offend you. 

Have a great weekend as well.  Thanks for the kind and well thought out responses.  Keep on blogging......you have people who really enjoy what you do.  It's great to do something that makes people happy.

Best Regards

~Tom

 

Edited by Mohawk

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2 hours ago, Mokiechan said:

The Canadians do not round up any transaction involving debit/credit or similar things.  If you buy one single item using cash in Canada, you will suffer the roundup.  If you buy a whole grocery cart (two or more items) using cash, then the final price is rounded up.  Your $.99 Cent candy bar becomes a $1 candy bar when you use cash, your $189.54 Dollar Costco purchase become 189.55 if you use Cash.  So the hyper inflationary trends you referenced are dampened considerably and since most transaction in the USA are done without actual cash changing hands, then we should have a similar dampening effect as long as we use the same protocols. 

Éirinn go Brách....Did you know we Irish have fought for the U.S. in more wars than any other Nationality....Peace Brother...

Screenshot_20190406-162236.png

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9 hours ago, Numismatic, A.A.S. said:

"We have to work on a budget"

Uh...the United States has no budget. We are growing the national debt every hour, becoming more in tangled into the London Bankers Web of Deception. 

"What happens to the truckers and railways that deliverd these gone."

As far as the Railroad, they will still function...there is only one way to haul the Heaviest Freight and at a constant speed...Union Pacific Mainline protected by the Dept. Of Defense for several reasons. 

 "If you buy something for 1.99 be ready to pay 2.05"

Your Exactly Right about that, the amount of Money rounded up can cause a hyper inflationary environment, very dangerous to eliminate the Cent.

"Tell me what happens to those with families who get laid off"

It's very difficult, we've had to Survive before and do without till better jobs were earned, many sleepless nights, coin collecting put on hold, many coins sold...life deals some bad hands Brother.

I feel your Pain. I understand what you're saying..it's hard to stay positive. New designs should be in place...always...

It seems tougher these days as I blame the Bankers...the next time they mess up...and they have been...we will pay for it. The bail in...ie, negative interest rates is spreading from Japan like a virus...

I see the Day when Gold and Silver coins will be used in commerce again...bad money always pushes the good money out....peace 

Look for every action there is a reaction. The numbers were in a coin world email I get everyday. We have to remember the mint is down low on the Treasury  Department list. They run the mint and do the prices. I just tried to look at the whole.picture. Yes there will be change but a prime example is what happened to who was going on the Twenty Dollar Bill. That's gone. But I'm old tiered and sick. I probably won't be around to see any. Only from that big vault in the sky. Thanks I appreciate your responce. Weather there pro or against its all good it generates discussion that's good. Thanks. Mike

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2 hours ago, Numismatic, A.A.S. said:

Éirinn go Brách....Did you know we Irish have fought for the U.S. in more wars than any other Nationality....Peace Brother...

Screenshot_20190406-162236.png

But no mention of the cent eradication as a proximate cause.

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