LOOKING FOR 2000-P NGC MS 69 SACAGAWEA $1

[RAPP-migration]

I am looking for a Sacagawea Dollar 2000P NGC MS 69 only. I already have a NGC MS 68 PL, so please don't offer me to buy anything less than the MS 69.

 

Thank you

David

[conqueror]

I checked but it is a 2003, better luck finding your coin. John

[braddick]

I am looking for a Sacagawea Dollar 2000P NGC MS 69 only. I already have a NGC MS 68 PL, so please don't offer me to buy anything less than the MS 69.

 

Thank you

David

David,

Please be careful as many of the 2000 Sacagaweas that NGC graded MS69 would not make the grade today. I've owned three over the years (each purchased off of Teletrade) and one even had a pinpoint speck of green PVC that upon a return to NGC under their grade guarantee was simply returned to me as "meeting the grade". The other two had tics that would normally keep these out of this lofty grade.

 

I'd buy sight seen only before commiting your funds and also, these do turn up somewhat frequently (the pops are surprsingly high) so be careful in overpaying because it's something you want.

[Stanley]

I am looking for a Sacagawea Dollar 2000P NGC MS 69 only. I already have a NGC MS 68 PL, so please don't offer me to buy anything less than the MS 69.

 

Thank you

David

What's it worth to you? As of today NGC shows to have graded 5361 and only 76 were MS69.

Old image,Purchased mine as a collector for my personal collection 3/27/2005 and wasn’t on Teletrade.

[RAPP-migration]

Braddick,

 

Thank you for your insight and advice concerning the coin. I will definitely take it into consideration.

 

Thank you

David

[Stanley]

The sticker was placed on this at the time of purchase.

 

[coinman1794]

Yes, listen to braddick on this. In fact, DON'T buy any 2000-P NGC MS69 unless you get it for MS67 money, because that's what it would grade today...I've been watching this situation for years.

 

The back story that everyone should read:

 

In 2000, the Sac dollars came out and NGC and other grading services had to develope a standard for grading them. The standard at NGC was decidedly loose (in my opinion), and a large number of MS67s, MS68s, and 69s were turned out early on. The 3 MS69s I've handled would be low MS67s today, they were appalling. Exactly 75 MS69s were graded by the end of 2000. By 2001, standards tightened dramatically to an accurate level (and NGC has done an excellent job on Sacs ever since). Note that 75 MS69s were graded in 2000, and from 2001-2007 only 1 addition MS69 has been added. I extrapolate that at least 1 of the 76 MS69s is accurately graded! Most MS68s graded after 2000 are nicer than the MS69s from the first year of grading, and if your MS68 coin was graded after the shift, it will be nicer than the 69s.

[RAPP-migration]

Coinman1794,

 

Thank you also. I had no idea that there was an issue here. I was just looking to add some regisrty points to my collection and assumed that there were 76 beautiful examples out there that would add to my collection. My MS 68 PL is quite nice and assumed that a 69 would be even nicer. I know that I shouldn't buy for registry points but there is almost a 300 point difference between my PL & the 69. I will have to consider these things.

 

Thank you

david

[Stanley]

Yes, listen to braddick on this. In fact, DON'T buy any 2000-P NGC MS69 unless you get it for MS67 money, because that's what it would grade today...I've been watching this situation for years.

 

The back story that everyone should read:

 

In 2000, the Sac dollars came out and NGC and other grading services had to develope a standard for grading them. The standard at NGC was decidedly loose (in my opinion), and a large number of MS67s, MS68s, and 69s were turned out early on. The 3 MS69s I've handled would be low MS67s today, they were appalling. Exactly 75 MS69s were graded by the end of 2000. By 2001, standards tightened dramatically to an accurate level (and NGC has done an excellent job on Sacs ever since). Note that 75 MS69s were graded in 2000, and from 2001-2007 only 1 addition MS69 has been added. I extrapolate that at least 1 of the 76 MS69s is accurately graded! Most MS68s graded after 2000 are nicer than the MS69s from the first year of grading, and if your MS68 coin was graded after the shift, it will be nicer than the 69s.

I think your full of do do

 

Edited to add: The first I heard this. Who published it?

[coinman1794]

I watched it happen, no one published it that I know of. I was a Sac collector and I took an interest early on. At the end of 2000, there were 75 MS69s graded. Also being a regular submitter to NGC, the grading standard shift was obvious to me.

[coinman1794]

RAPP,

 

I don't think the "issue" is well known or publicized. It’s something I documented and have been upset about for years. It is possible that some true 69s have been graded as well, but they are lumped in with a lot of garbage. You just have to be careful.

[JammnIT]

I find it really wild that there is so much "hoopla" over these 2000-P Sac dollars.

I have an entire unopened roll of these that I had picked up from the bank back in 2000 when the banks had first received them. At that time, I had never really heard of NGC...so I obviously didn't submit any for grading. I know I know, I feel like such a noob, but I bought this roll and immediately put in in my safe where they have been ever since.

[Stanley]

This will be my last post on the Market Place. I'll just leave it to the bottom feeders.

[bsshog40]

This will be my last post on the Market Place. I'll just leave it to the bottom feeders.

Stan, I think your Sac looks very nice. I don't really know the standards for grading these. I don't think also, that you should let others comments effect the feelings you have for your coin. No one that I have seen, has downgraded the quality of your Sac whatsoever. I think there was a post about this a while back. Step up and be proud of what you have if you are proud of it. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest to own that Sac.

[Stanley]

I appreciate it boss, I just wiped out all my registry sets. Soon as I figure out how I’ll be removing my post images.

I may lurk some but I think I just want to be a nobody for a while.

 

BTW the article "The back story that everyone should read:" Was writen by who do you think

I'm just tired of that sort of *spoon*

 

 

[RAPP-migration]

Hey Guys,

 

I am looking to buy one of these for the right price. I didn't mean to start any trouble. I honestly don't have the ability or confidence to really tell a 69 from a 68. This is why I leave it to a third party like NGC. I do know a pretty coin though. I trust their products and pretty much solely collect NGC coins. I am a regular submitter to NGC of my OGP coins. I have a few PCGS also. I am currently #10 on the NGC registry for MS SAC's and pretty high on the registry for SBA's, IKE's, Kennedy's & modern Commem's. Feel free to check my sets under my name David Rappaport on the registry site. I am looking for registry quality coins for my collections and can't buy everything from Ebay & Teletrade.

 

I am new to the boards and trying to figure out who is on here and how it works. I didn't know of the grading issues for the 2000 year, but trying to learn and thought that this would be a good place to learn and purchase. Is there competition or jealousy on this board? I am just an honest guy trying to build my collection. I have met some really nice people on Ebay & I would even call some friends. I do regular business with some of them. I am hoping for the same thing here. I live in the center of Manhattan, and believe it or not it is not very easy to meet people in NYC who have this numismatic passion. I have done some business from this chatboard so far(I won't mention any names), and am looking to learn more and do more business.

 

Thank you

David

[bsshog40]

You're still at the right place there David. Everyone has thier days once in a while. these posts bring out the good along with the bad sometimes. that's what makes them interesting tho".

[coinman1794]

 

BTW the article "The back story that everyone should read:" Was writen by who do you think

I'm just tired of that sort of *spoon*

 

 

I'm not sure what you’re getting at. I don't even know who you are, and I had no idea you were selling anything when I gave my advice to RAPP. A publicly posed question about a familiar subject caught my eye and I was attempting to help out a fellow collector. If you thought I was trying to break up a potential sale, then there has been a misunderstanding and I apologize for any oversight on my part. Either way, I did not belittle you in any way and I would appreciate the same courtesy.

[pendragon1998]

This will be my last post on the Market Place. I'll just leave it to the bottom feeders.

 

So all the rest of us who buy, sell, and trade here are bottom feeders? I could list a dozen names right off the bat that are well-respected members of the numismatic community. I can't say I really appreciated that.

[Stanley]

 

BTW the article "The back story that everyone should read:" Was writen by who do you think

I'm just tired of that sort of *spoon*

 

 

I'm not sure what you’re getting at. I don't even know who you are, and I had no idea you were selling anything when I gave my advice to RAPP. A publicly posed question about a familiar subject caught my eye and I was attempting to help out a fellow collector. If you thought I was trying to break up a potential sale, then there has been a misunderstanding and I apologize for any oversight on my part. Either way, I did not belittle you in any way and I would appreciate the same courtesy.

I will not accept your apology. You are arrogant and vindictive; you speak from both sides of your mouth.

 

You say you did so much watching and documenting of the Sacagawea’s beginnings with NGC and how they didn’t know how to grade them properly, my guess is you followed it about as close as you did this thread.

 

You may even be the type to go to the bank and buy rolls to submit hoping to strike it rich with lofty grades for which you could sell for hefty profits and then like most cry and whimper when the coins don’t grade as high as you like, thus causing you a financial loss.

 

I’m not sure I believe there were 75 69s graded the first year and only 1 since, which would be something interesting to find out.

 

You same as insulted me when you posted you’re so called story, "The back story that everyone should read:" which you wrote yourself. And advised Rapp to only purchase MS69 for MS67 money because that’s what they would grade. Did you submit all 76 of the 69s graded?

 

I really wasn’t trying to sell the Sac I posted as much as I was offering an opportunity for dialog and comparison. In addition I also believed it to be an opportunity to draw out an opinion such as you offered. Ask Rapp if I put any pressure on him to purchase it, I actually passed on his offer and thanked him for his interest.

 

In conclusion I would recommend if you want to help others that first you get your facts straight, and secondly you stop pedaling junk in your ebay store.

[coinman1794]

You have crossed the line now, and so I must divert my attention to serious numismatic pursuits.

[bsshog40]

It's a shame when this hobby, that has such a vast amount of knowledge, history, and comradery, can turn fellow numismatists against each with a small difference of opinion. I seen nothing in this post that attacked either party in any of the posts. This only shows insecurity of the individual that feels attacked, when in fact, no attack took place. I hope that we are all adult enough to show respect for each other and respect each others individuals opinions and comments.

[ant]

[RAPP-migration]

Guys, This has gotten out of hand. I am new here and would like to continue learning and possibly buying from here. I can't buy everything from Ebay. Get over it. I have posted some of my registry signatures(I think that is what it is called) and am open to buying high quality coins for my sets, at the right prices. If anyone has anything that I might need, please let me know. I don't want to start trouble or be hesitant to post.

 

Thanks

David

[bsshog40]

Don't fret about it david. Everyone has thier days. I've seen'em before. It's still the best forum around as far as I'm concerned!

[RAPP-migration]

Thank you Bsshog. You seem to be the level headed mediator around here.

[bsshog40]

Thank you Bsshog. You seem to be the level headed mediator around here.

 

Like I said, we all have our days.

[Stanley]

A better image...Not for sale

[zrlevin]

Hey Stanley,

 

Take a chill pill. You've gone off the deep end on this one.

 

[Stanley]

What is this ? Bash Stanley Day