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Basic Question About Regrading Coins
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31 posts in this topic

I notice that some grading companies allow you to send in a coin in a holder that you think is undergraded, and they'll consider regrading it for a fee.

 

On the other hand, you can break a coin out of its holder and send it in as if it were being initially graded.

 

Which approach is better, in the sense that it's more likely to result in a higher grade?

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It depends on the coin. If the coin is in another company's holder and the target company might want it in their own holder, then it might be worthwhile to send it in as is. If a company might think they would give the impression of being loose by crossing the coin, you might want to crack it out first. It really varies with the coin.

 

If you're talking about resubmitting to the same company, some companies offer the alternative of presidential review to reconsider the grade.

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Removing the coin from its holder likely gives you a considerably better chance for an up-grade. However, in doing so, you lose the protection of the grade guarantee and subject yourself to the risk of a down-grade or no-grade. Either of those bad outcomes/surprises can occur no matter how good the coin might look. It's a matter of potential reward and risk and how big of a gambler you are.

 

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I notice that some grading companies allow you to send in a coin in a holder that you think is undergraded, and they'll consider regrading it for a fee.

 

On the other hand, you can break a coin out of its holder and send it in as if it were being initially graded.

 

Which approach is better, in the sense that it's more likely to result in a higher grade?

Removing the coin from its holder likely gives you a considerably better chance for an up-grade. However, in doing so, you lose the protection of the grade guarantee and subject yourself to the risk of a down-grade or no-grade. Either of those bad outcomes/surprises can occur no matter how good the coin might look. It's a matter of potential reward and risk and how big of a gambler you are.

 

Hey Mark, what happens if you send the coin still in its currents slab, let's say Anacs for arguments sake and the graders believe it will cross, so they crack it out. Once out of the slab they see something that changes their minds, what do they do then. The coin will not cross, yet it's already out of the original slab.

 

JJ

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I notice that some grading companies allow you to send in a coin in a holder that you think is undergraded, and they'll consider regrading it for a fee.

 

On the other hand, you can break a coin out of its holder and send it in as if it were being initially graded.

 

Which approach is better, in the sense that it's more likely to result in a higher grade?

Removing the coin from its holder likely gives you a considerably better chance for an up-grade. However, in doing so, you lose the protection of the grade guarantee and subject yourself to the risk of a down-grade or no-grade. Either of those bad outcomes/surprises can occur no matter how good the coin might look. It's a matter of potential reward and risk and how big of a gambler you are.

 

Hey Mark, what happens if you send the coin still in its currents slab, let's say Anacs for arguments sake and the graders believe it will cross, so they crack it out. Once out of the slab they see something that changes their minds, what do they do then. The coin will not cross, yet it's already out of the original slab.

 

JJ

JJ, while I have heard of that happening on very rare occasions it hasn't happened to me, so I can't answer based upon personal experience.

 

That said, I believe that the fairest thing to do would be to see if the submitter could get the coin back into its original holder and if unsuccessful, that he be compensated in some way by the company that cracked the coin out.

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If you send the coin in the slab, some TPGs will use the previous grade as one of the consensus grades so it will have an impact on the new grade. Cracking out the coin will improve your chances of upgrading at TPGs that do this. I believe PCGS does this. Not sure about NGC.

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It looks to me like you fellows are saying crossovers should not be attempted, simply break out the coin and submit it to the new grading service. Am I reading correctly?

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It looks to me like you fellows are saying crossovers should not be attempted, simply break out the coin and submit it to the new grading service. Am I reading correctly?
Actually, most of the discussion has been about re-grades, not cross-overs. Even with respect to cross-overs, however, it depends upon how big of a gambler you are, as you have more upside AND downside in cracking the coins out.
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I sent in 5 coins when I joined. All were graded by NTC, Granted, I know how they overgrade, but they all come back in bodybags. I wonder how the outcome would have been If I cracked them out of the holders. "I'll never know." yeahok.gif

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Coins that were graded by PCGS have been cracked, resubmitted to PCGS and come back in bodybags. So it's not just NTC. NTC coins will give you a higher probability of getting a bodybag at a top TPG, but there is some inherent variability in the grading process, regardless of previous TPG.

 

You can post photos here to get opinions on the coin. If people here generally say they are problem-free, it might make sense to resubmit the coins.

 

As for cracking out, more risk is often correlated with more reward. You need to decide how much risk you are comfortable with.

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It looks to me like you fellows are saying crossovers should not be attempted, simply break out the coin and submit it to the new grading service. Am I reading correctly?
Actually, most of the discussion has been about re-grades, not cross-overs. Even with respect to cross-overs, however, it depends upon how big of a gambler you are, as you have more upside AND downside in cracking the coins out.

 

I have had coins regraded that upgraded and some that didn't.

I've also crossed NGC graded coins to PCGS and had them upgraded in the process.

Similarly, I've had coins not cross.

I've had coins regraded that didn't upgrade which really should have (this is not hopeful thinking).

So I guess there's truth to all of the above. I'm just not too willing to gamble, since I've had coins rejected by one service as AT or altered surfaces or environmental

damage and then graded by the other (I'm only talking NGC and PCGS here).

 

edited to add: then there is the cost to consider. I just had a raw copper graded by pcgs as vf20 when by eac standards, it is a vf30, so I expected them to grade it a vf35. I was surprised, but I can understand why they did it, but that's because they don't understand early copper. do I send it in for regrade? cross it to NGC? niether, it's not worth the effort, even the $20 presidential review which takes over a month to get back. Hell, I'll just crack it out the day I want to sell it.

 

Edited by MikeKing
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I sent in 5 coins when I joined. All were graded by NTC, Granted, I know how they overgrade, but they all come back in bodybags. I wonder how the outcome would have been If I cracked them out of the holders. "I'll never know." yeahok.gif

 

I have to agree with Zoins. The only NTC coin I ever bought I returned immediately to the seller since it was clearly altered surfaces.

edited to add: try sending them to anacs and see what happens, they've gone downhill.

Edited by MikeKing
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I have had coins regraded that upgraded and some that didn't.

I've also crossed NGC graded coins to PCGS and had them upgraded in the process. Similarly, I've had coins not cross. I've had coins regraded that didn't upgrade which really should have (this is not hopeful thinking).

 

This sums up my experience as well. I’ve had many coins upgrade when sent in while still in the holder, but I’ve also has some that needed to be sent in more then once or cracked out to get the upgrade and as you said Mike these were not ‘a hope & a prayer’ type of coins.

 

I used to believe that the outcome did not matter at all if you sent a coin in while still in the holder or not, however my thinking has changed about that over the years. I now believe that you probably do have a slightly better chance of a coin upgrading the first time through if it is cracked out of the holder and sent in raw, but as others have said there can be considerable down side risk in doing so.

 

Of course this whole topic is dependent upon the coin(s) ACTULLY being worthy of upgrading. As the saying goes ‘ownership adds a point to the grade’ and I’m sure that the TPG’s get many coins sent in by owners who believe their coins are under graded when in fact they are not.

 

John

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Well I had 10 sets of the 20th anniversary silver eagle sets which I sent in to NGC. I got them back a month ago and got the following grades:

 

MS70 x1 PR70 x7 R-PR70 x6

MS69 x9 PR69 x3 R-PR69 x4

 

With the difference in price between MS69 and MS70 you can see why I want to send the 9 MS69s in for a regrade. The only thing is I'm stuck with leaving them in the NGC holders otherwise they wont come back in a 20th anniv holder.

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On 5/2/2007 at 7:59 PM, camarasa-migration said:

Well I had 10 sets of the 20th anniversary silver eagle sets which I sent in to NGC. I got them back a month ago and got the following grades:

 

MS70 x1 PR70 x7 R-PR70 x6

MS69 x9 PR69 x3 R-PR69 x4

 

With the difference in price between MS69 and MS70 you can see why I want to send the 9 MS69s in for a regrade. The only thing is I'm stuck with leaving them in the NGC holders otherwise they wont come back in a 20th anniv holder.

Ouch. Bummer on the 9 MS 69s. Those are the money coins.

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5 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I don't understand the references to "bodybags" ??   

"Bodybag" is a term used for when a coin is submitted for grading, is determined to have a problem which precludes a straight grade and is returned to the submitter  in a bag, rather than in a third party holder. That scenario is a lot less common these days, now that details grade coins can be holdered. It wasn't always that way.

Edited by MarkFeld
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On 1/10/2021 at 10:30 AM, MarkFeld said:

That picture has nothing to do with body-bags.

Neither did the OP's question!

The thread is about which is better, resubmitting the coins in-holder, or cracking the coins out and sending them in "raw".

 

From the original posters' first post:

"I notice that some grading companies allow you to send in a coin in a holder that you think is undergraded, and they'll consider regrading it for a fee.

On the other hand, you can break a coin out of its holder and send it in as if it were being initially graded.

Which approach is better, in the sense that it's more likely to result in a higher grade?"

 

After 30 years of guerilla grading and slab-cracking, I say 'crack 'em out' first. (Assuming the person can grade, and is not just engaging in some sort of 'hopeful speculation'!)

 

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[Begging the Moderator's indulgence, by introducing an inappropriate reference to serve as an analogy, there is an aspect to the OP's "Basic Question" that reminds me of the war fought by Iraq 🇮🇶 against Iran 🇮🇷 -- for 8 years, in which both sides prayed to the same God (Allah) to win, and suffered resounding losses.

If there were an answer to these hypotheticals, it would likely be right 50% of the time.  The word would get out, and "wink-wink," everyone would know what to do.

But there is no one  approach that has an edge over the other.  Is it possible to come up with tomorrow's winning daily numbers?  Of course it is.  Can one do so consistently over a period of time?  How about horse racing 🐎 and elections?  

One cannot achieve perfection in coin grading. But one can strive for it. Certification is but a step in that direction. You have to accept the good with the bad.  It is the unpredictability of the hobby that has us all on our toes.

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Perfection is a later goal. I’d settle for some consistency. Alas, it is not yet to be. 

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12 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Perfection is a later goal. I’d settle for some consistency. Alas, it is not yet to be. 

We had consistency, before grading was weaponized. And a few of us are old enough to remember it. It was simple... Good, Very Good, Fine, Very Fine, Extra Fine.... all the way up to Proof. 

Those were the good old days.

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2 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

We had consistency, before grading was weaponized. And a few of us are old enough to remember it. It was simple... Good, Very Good, Fine, Very Fine, Extra Fine.... all the way up to Proof. 

Those were the good old days.

No, those were the paleonumismatic days, before grades with numbers. I do have a Red Book or three around here with those grades in it. But in those days, we thought Proof was a grade. It never was. There never has been consistency in the 60-70 range, even by the best TPGS firms, and frankly, until a lot of AI gets thrown at this problem, we never will. The circulated grades are just fine and work well enough. 

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22 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

No, those were the paleonumismatic days, before grades with numbers. I do have a Red Book or three around here with those grades in it. But in those days, we thought Proof was a grade. It never was. There never has been consistency in the 60-70 range, even by the best TPGS firms, and frankly, until a lot of AI gets thrown at this problem, we never will. The circulated grades are just fine and work well enough. 

@VKurtB  I believe the old Red Books made it clear a Proof was a Proof, period. In a class by itself much like patterns, piedforts and essais. The only distinction I recall was a matte proof as opposed to the usual specially prepared mirror-surfaced planchet.  I am with you on that.

Now my life has telescoped into a few select dated 🐓🐓🐓 in Mint State-65, -66- and -67 grades with a -68 a distinct possibility. (The first two MS-67 🐓🐓 have been certified earlier this year by NGC for the last coin in the series, 1914 -- with no PCGS counterpart.)

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