Jeff Garrett: Big Business for Numismatics 1 1

[zadok]

On 8/2/2021 at 5:55 PM, World Colonial said:

If a collector wants one with the highest number on a TPG label, with a very specific strike, with a very specific color or color pattern ("eye appeal", some die variety, or a combination, such a coin might be hard to find.  So are 99% of all coins ever struck outside of NCLT, modern proofs, and maybe circulating coinage from the last 10-20 years.

Most collectors don't find any difficulty in buying 20th century US coins in "acceptable quality".  Your description applies to a very low fraction of the collector base and the primary reason this behavior happens at all is that most of these coins are so common, they have the luxury to choose from a (relatively) large number: almost always dozens, hundreds, thousands or even more in "acceptable quality".

Intermittently, I look at numerous US key dates or coins viewed as (somewhat) scarce or even rare.  Invariably, I can find practically every one every time and it isn't "dreck" either.  On a recent search, this included the 1796 and 1797 half dollars.  Collectors Corner had six 1796 and three 1797 (including auctions) up to MS.  I have found one or both of these dates in "high quality", every single time I have looked.  It's not common but isn't a hard type to buy, even in "high" quality.

I intended to use "acceptable quality" broadly as it describes how most collectors  actually collect.  They aren't willing to pay, can't afford, or don't care about what are actually minor attributes, outside of the price.  Collectors have always preferred better coins, this kind of search was just a lot less important to them when the price level was a lot lower and price spreads were narrower.

The broader point I was trying to make is the one I made before.  I don't see much motive for a buyer to bypass public auction where the coin is readily available, though I was only using 20th century US as an example.  They might as well buy it from a dealer instead of another collector, unless they can split the savings with the seller or buy it a discount, at minimum.

Another alternative to auctions is consignment.  If I had the coins inferred in the prior posts meeting this narrow quality criteria and price range, I'd consign to a dealer like CRO.  It's much easier and less risky than hoping you can find another collector who wants what you have when you don't even know them.

understand ur points n dont necessarily disagree in general....but coin collecting isnt a one size fits all thing....i was addressing the issue of scarcity n rarity more than acceptable quality...true virtually all US 20th cent coins r readily available in all grades, my comments more directed at 19th cent n 18th cent issues where certain coins r truly rare n not obtainable in certain grades...if one has enuf money one can possibly obtain an example of virtually ever coin ever issued by the US excepting coins that r unique n permanently impounded...my personal experience with collectors of 18-19th cent US coins, including myself, is there is a desire to assemble collections with some sort of uniformity, grade wise....i have assembled several sets of such coins over the past 5 decades n i always established reasonable expectation parameters for the collections before i started..."acceptable quality" if u will....examples, in my seated half dime collection i believed it possible to obtain all coins in mint state n it was....in my seated quarter collection i knew that obtaining all coins in mint state wasnt realistic, so my acceptable quality parameters were f-15 to xf-45, which was obtained but took 15 years to do so because some of those coins r not available in certain grades for years....conditional rarity....but both of those collections were uniform in appearance, the later being displayed nationally....i would agree with ur comment that most foreign collectors r not as obsessed with grading as much as US collectors r....having said that, i chose to carry over my US instincts in my foreign collections n strive only for mint state coins n almost all r certified by the tpgs, true i may not be able to complete some of these collections in mint state, the coins dont exist, so eventually i will have to expand my acceptable quality parameters or do without....

as for ur questions why dont US buyers buy from face to face dealers as opposed to auction houses?...no clear answer, i personally buy most of my coins thru the major auctions or major firms but will buy from dealers in person if the opportunity arises....i think its more of what the buyers r comfortable with n the confidence they believe the auction houses provide even if it costs them more money....

[Henri Charriere]

@VKurtB  May I respectfully recommend ma-shops, based in Germany, but comprised of a consortium of carefully vetted coin emporiums based in many other countries in Europe -- with one newly-opened outpost in the U.S. Some specialize in ancient and Renaissance coinage.

[VKurtB]

On 8/3/2021 at 1:59 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

@VKurtB  May I respectfully recommend ma-shops, based in Germany, but comprised of a consortium of carefully vetted coin emporiums based in many other countries in Europe -- with one newly-opened outpost in the U.S. Some specialize in ancient and Renaissance coinage.

CNG is the Cadillac of that segment. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/3/2021 at 3:09 PM, VKurtB said:

CNG is the Cadillac of that segment. 

[Let's see... CNG and U.K. Okay, tell you what, just get up once to keep the circulation going, and you have my blessing to take the flight. Fair enough?]

[VKurtB]

On 8/3/2021 at 2:28 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

[Let's see... CNG and U.K. Okay, tell you what, just get up once to keep the circulation going, and you have my blessing to take the flight. Fair enough?]

CNG has two locations. London, England and Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/3/2021 at 3:47 PM, VKurtB said:

CNG has two locations. London, England and Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

Good to know in case I stumble over an ancient hoard.

[VKurtB]

On 8/3/2021 at 2:49 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Good to know in case I stumble over an ancient hoard.

I’ve visited both. One was about 5000 miles out of my way, and the other 2 miles.

[World Colonial]

On 8/3/2021 at 1:22 PM, zadok said:

understand ur points n dont necessarily disagree in general....but coin collecting isnt a one size fits all thing....i was addressing the issue of scarcity n rarity more than acceptable quality...

I think we are in agreement, mostly at least.  Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference and the collectors attitude toward collecting.  There is no "one size fits all."

I agree with you that those who spend more money are more inclined to collect as you describe, because they are more able to afford it and the amount of the outlay motivates them to do it.

But the availability also has a lot to do with it.  You know this better than I do.  More prominent US coins in very low grades, many of which I consider "dreck" regardless that US collectors see it differently.  These coins cost four and sometimes five figures, even with problems or in "market acceptable" grades of AG-3 or G-4.

A coin like the 1796 quarter or 1796-1797 half.  These coins are scarcer than those I collect as a type, because the combined mintages are very low and much lower than my series.  It's several thousand versus several million.  But in decent circulated grades, higher grades, or even "choice", mostly not really rare most of the time.  I don't see 1794 dollars, 1796 half cents or 1802 half dimes often.  I do see most early US federal type in "high quality" (regardless of date) and often in multiple most or every time I look.

If I insisted on collecting with similar exacting quality standards or tried to enforce a uniform look, I'd hardly ever buy anything.

[World Colonial]

On 8/3/2021 at 3:09 PM, VKurtB said:

CNG is the Cadillac of that segment. 

Yes and in my limited experience, their grading is really strict.  One coin I missed which they graded "Good VF" is now in a PCGS MS-63 holder.  I consider the actual grade to be somewhere in-between but I don't see it as a true MS.

[VKurtB]

On 8/3/2021 at 2:58 PM, World Colonial said:

Yes and in my limited experience, their grading is really strict.  One coin I missed which they graded "Good VF" is now in a PCGS MS-63 holder.  I consider the actual grade to be somewhere in-between but I don't see it as a true MS.

Kerry Wetterstrom, this year’s Farran Zerbe Award winner, works at the Lancaster, PA office of CNG.