Rotated Die / Misaligned
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15 posts in this topic

At what point is a coin considered misaligned to have "Rotated Die" on it's label?  Are there specific specs, a guide or any official chart on this?  I'm just curious as I have a 1942-S wartime nickel and of the coins I own it's the only one that's not aligned like all of my others.  It's slight but again just curious to know more about this topic.

Rotate obv.jpg

Rotate rev.jpg

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A rotated die and a misaligned die are not the same thing.  You could have either one, and it is also possible to have both at the same time.  The coin pictured has a rotated die but doesn't appear to have a misaligned die.

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Ok that gives me better idea.  Only recently I came across two coins listed online with that on their labels but nothing online about the degree to be considered.  Thank you.  Appreciate it!

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The jefferson is one of the hardest to see a rotation. Your coin is rotated in the holder making the reverse look rotated. Look at the top of the words on the obverse, you will see that trust is farther into the prong as the liberty is to the other prong. The two words should be straight across. if you run a line thru the tips of the words and around the holder you will see it is not rotated.

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@asdfgh  This rank amateur begs to differ. The rotation is significant enough as to come to any sober observer's notice.  Aside:  the steepest [unmarked] grade of any street in New York City has a 12% grade and from a distance looks like a rogue wave or tsunami. 🐓

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On 8/2/2021 at 10:12 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

@asdfgh  This rank amateur begs to differ. The rotation is significant enough as to come to any sober observer's notice.  Aside:  the steepest [unmarked] grade of any street in New York City has a 12% grade and from a distance looks like a rogue wave or tsunami. 🐓

Nah, the rogue wave is you. :roflmao:

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On 7/29/2021 at 1:02 AM, Conder101 said:

A rotated die and a misaligned die are not the same thing.  You could have either one, and it is also possible to have both at the same time.  The coin pictured has a rotated die but doesn't appear to have a misaligned die.

MN1, here's a pic for your reference in relation to Condor's comment.   My coin pictured is actually an OFF CENTER STRIKE Linc I found awhile ago in the wild in a wrapped bank roll.  Let me be specific here so as not to confuse you (with all due respect in case you are not already familiar with the differences of a rotated die, misaligned die, and I'm throwing in this pic of an off center strike just for reference but will explain below).  

My coin pictured here is an Off Center Strike (OCS) as I mentioned above.  Both the Obverse and Reverse were struck completely off center. Both sides have to be struck off center for it to be an OCS.

However......If ONLY the Obverse of a coin exhibited this misalignment (predominantly the Obverse), but the Reverse design of this coin was perfectly centered within its rim, that would be referred to as a Misaligned Die or M.A.D. for short. Only one side of the coin would be struck out of, or away from, its respective rim which would result in a MAD.

Your coin is what appears to be a rotated die as Condor said and it is possible to have both a rotated die and a MAD at the same time but I agree that yours is just a rotated die. Only one side of the opposing dies was not properly oriented in relation to the other side but the strike of your coin appears to be well centered on both sides but rotated. No different than the possibility of having true doubling and machine doubling at the same time on any specific coin.

Hope this helps and isn't too confusing.

Thanks! 

IMG_9411.jpg

IMG_9415.jpg

Edited by GBrad
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On 8/8/2021 at 1:21 PM, GBrad said:

MN1, here's a pic for your reference in relation to Condor's comment.   My coin pictured is actually an OFF CENTER STRIKE Linc I found awhile ago in the wild in a wrapped bank roll.  Let me be specific here so as not to confuse you (with all due respect in case you are not already familiar with the differences of a rotated die, misaligned die, and I'm throwing in this pic of an off center strike just for reference but will explain below).  

My coin pictured here is an Off Center Strike (OCS) as I mentioned above.  Both the Obverse and Reverse were struck completely off center. Both sides have to be struck off center for it to be an OCS.

However......If ONLY the Obverse of a coin exhibited this misalignment (predominantly the Obverse), but the Reverse design of this coin was perfectly centered within its rim, that would be referred to as a Misaligned Die or M.A.D. for short. Only one side of the coin would be struck out of, or away from, its respective rim which would result in a MAD.

Your coin is what appears to be a rotated die as Condor said and it is possible to have both a rotated die and a MAD at the same time but I agree that yours is just a rotated die. Only one side of the opposing dies was not properly oriented in relation to the other side but the strike of your coin appears to be well centered on both sides but rotated. No different than the possibility of having true doubling and machine doubling at the same time on any specific coin.

Hope this helps and isn't too confusing.

Thanks! 

IMG_9411.jpg

IMG_9415.jpg

[THAT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING!  The expression, numismatically,  of "mad scientist" can be traced back to the sterile etymology of "MisAligned Dies," and their close sanguine relatives, "doubled- and rotated-dies."  I haven't the slightest idea why all the fuss over obvious imperfections, but I must admit it sounds good, and makes collectors of such curiosities and oddities, deliriously happy.]

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On 8/8/2021 at 2:04 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

[THAT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING!  The expression, numismatically,  of "mad scientist" can be traced back to the sterile etymology of "MisAligned Dies," and their close sanguine relatives, "doubled- and rotated-dies."  I haven't the slightest idea why all the fuss over obvious imperfections, but I must admit it sounds good, and makes collectors of such curiosities and oddities, deliriously happy.]

I can only assume that this as a compliment??????  One day I would like to get inside of your head and, by simple osmosis, become one, and at total peace with, your patois and argot terminology......... You have unknowingly, and unintentionally (which I am appreciative of, with all due respect... I think.hm.), broadened my vernacular and patter of speech with your colloquialism approach to the English language.  Sincerely,

GBrad 

Edited by GBrad
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On 8/9/2021 at 12:11 AM, GBrad said:

I can only assume that this as a compliment??????  One day I would like to get inside of your head and, by simple osmosis, become one, and at total peace with, your patois and argot terminology......... You have unknowingly, and unintentionally (which I am appreciative of, with all due respect... I think.hm.), broadened my vernacular and patter of speech with your colloquialism approach to the English language.  Sincerely,

GBrad 

Holy shmoly GBrad you sound like Quintus

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On 8/9/2021 at 11:50 AM, J P Mashoke said:

Holy shmoly GBrad you sound like Quintus

Hey JP, do you have any idea how long it took me to come up with that and I'm hoping I used the words correctly after researching them all  (I was waiting on someone to comment) !!!!! lol  No joke... some of the verbiage QA uses forces me to pull out the Meriam Websters.... As a result, my vocabulary has expanded!!!  Thanks QA!(thumbsu

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On 8/9/2021 at 12:01 PM, GBrad said:

Hey JP, do you have any idea how long it took me to come up with that and I'm hoping I used the words correctly after researching them all  (I was waiting on someone to comment) !!!!! lol  No joke... some of the verbiage QA uses forces me to pull out the Meriam Websters.... As a result, my vocabulary has expanded!!!  Thanks QA!(thumbsu

 Yes I agree ...I love reading Quintus's posts sometimes they make me kick back and ............SAY WHAT.......:preach:

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