Trying to contact David Lange 0

[Midwest Dozer]

New to all of this been trying to see if he could possibly look this over 

[Midwest Dozer]

[Just Bob]

@DWLange

That should get his attention.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Just Bob

[Midwest Dozer]

[Midwest Dozer]

I’m having hell getting these pictures uploaded on here. I’m trying to crop them but save the good parts to identify it

[Midwest Dozer]

Everything matches the I the 4 everything. 

[Crawtomatic]

I'm not David but I don't see a clear question.  Are you looking for a 1974 50c DDO variety here?

[Midwest Dozer]

No those are pictures of a 1964 sms Kennedy. I have sent NGC service all the pictures that’s been taken of this coin. I do have the others as well so no I didn’t pluck this out of some random roll or from any change. This set was in a sealed package until I noticed the Kennedy basically the 4. Then we cut them all out and took pictures of all of them. So nope not some random fake 

[Morpheus1967]

You don't contact @DWLange.  He contacts you.  

[DWLange]

The doubling is extremely minor. There are many DDO and DDR varieties for the 1964 half dollars that are so slight and so similar to one another that NGC won't attribute them.

[Midwest Dozer]

On 7/26/2021 at 9:29 AM, DWLange said:

The doubling is extremely minor. There are many DDO and DDR varieties for the 1964 half dollars that are so slight and so similar to one another that NGC won't attribute them.

Both NGC and pgcs seem to not want slab a coin. Both companies have slabbed this attribute and have named it. If everything matches on obverse and reverse of this coin why am I missing this. Their was only one die used on the obverse of this specimen and only one die used on the reverse of this specimen. I’m confused to the road blocks I’m running into about one coin. This is extremely interesting that both companies don’t want to touch a coin 

[Midwest Dozer]

The sad part is my coin won’t grade nearly as high as any of the other ones. I see why everyone is frustrated over theses coins. They get shut down before they even get out the door. 

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 7/26/2021 at 11:03 AM, Midwest Dozer said:

The sad part is my coin won’t grade nearly as high as any of the other ones. I see why everyone is frustrated over theses coins. They get shut down before they even get out the door.

 

Help NGC help you by posting pictures of the entire coin, asking specific questions and giving thorough descriptions. 

Just send it in if you're so sure.

[Just Bob]

On 7/26/2021 at 3:32 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

 

Help NGC help you by posting pictures of the entire coin, asking specific questions and giving thorough descriptions. 

Just send it in if you're so sure.

I think that is the whole problem. He already knows how the submission is going to turn out. I completely understand his frustration. He owns a coin that has all of the markers of a  high-dollar "specimen" coin, and he can't get anyone to acknowledge that it is the same coin. I would be frustrated, too. The problem, as I see it, is that all of the known "specimens" (1964 SMS) came from the same place, as far as anyone has been able to determine. So, any coin that comes from a regular mint set, or from any other source, regardless of how good a match, is not one of those coins, so, can not be labeled a "specimen." Or, at least I assume that is the TPG's thinking.  Here is the catch, though: According to Mr. Burdette, the coins labeled as "Specimen" are merely the first coins minted from new dies. That is what gives them the special look, and that is probably why they were saved in the first place. If that is the case, then it stands to reason that there are many more coins out there with those same exact die markers. Those coins will never be recognized as "specimen" strikes, because they did not come from the Eva Adams estate. ( Or Lester Merkin, or wherever they were supposed to have come from.) So, you have a case of coins that look the same, and even come from the same die pair, but some are only worth what a normal Uncirculated coin would bring, and some are worth 4 or 5 figures. The only difference is provenance, and the opinion of a grading service.

That is my opinion, any way.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Just Bob

[Midwest Dozer]

My problem is they all ask for pictures I send them pictures and this is the reply 99% of the time. What do you do. Would you drop in the mail a coin that there’s only 22 of in the whole world. Then what say I did and it either gets lost or something happens to it that’s gone for ever. It’s amazing that both of these companies have graded these coins. We as collectors have to rely on these companies to be non biased based basically their called third party grading companies. So if they pick and choose what coins they decide can be labeled then there not a non bias based company. They are setting the market the way they want it to be. If a coin matches the only pair of dies that was used to make that coin it doesn’t matter where the coin came from mint set or Eva adams house. If they don’t want to recognize those coin then the other 22 need to be called regular Kennedy’s and not sms coins. What’s good for one is good for all that’s what makes it unbiased. One stander for all regardless. Any coin that was made with that die should be called sms otherwise it’s just a regular 1964 Kennedy. See they claim this same standard on 1893-s Morgan dollars as well only 1 obverse die and 1/2 reverse dies. We can only go by the standards they implicated in place and we have to stick to it. As what I was saying now they are picking and choosing. So there’s my thoughts about this mess. I don’t need the money he’ll I don’t even want to sell it. Now it’s more in-lines about the principal than anything. What’s really bad about all this is they all say it has to have this it has to have that it has to have a scratch here and when it all matches to a T. Then it’s a whole different story. No biased my toe. 

[Oldhoopster]

Where did you get the coin?  Can You trace it back to Adams, Merkin, or one of the early sales?  Did it come frm a high ranking mint employee or someone who was working on mint product development in 1964?  

If it just came from a mint set or other source, then you're probably out of luck. 

IMO, This is another gray area.  Are these truly SMS strikes as touted during their discovery in the late 80s, or are they nothing more than first strike coins.  More research is needed, but until then, provenance is as important as die markers.

[Midwest Dozer]

To me this coin 1964 sms is nothing but a joke. Do those people got proof that their coins did not come from a mint set the first few off the line. Of course they came off the production line. Their coins are no different then anyone’s they were packaged just like every other person’s coins. Those jokes of coins are the same exact coin I physically own and their is no difference in their coins. The only thing that makes those coins worth anything is Eva Adams got them from the mint. Took them cause they were the first few strikes off the same exact dies that struck the coin I own. They were never test strikes for 1965 coins. They were nothing but first strikes of Kennedy’s new coin with accent hai removed. The coins are a joke in every aspect. Owning one of them and watching grading companies play favorites is a joke as well. Telling a person there is too many dies really those coins were struck using one die. What it comes down to is money. If more are to be proven then the sales of those coins would be a laughing joke and a loss of six figures. Well news flash their is more of them. Those dies used are just like finger prints and well theirs only one set of finger prints per coin. I’ve had their NGC and Pgcs coins mapped and the coin I own is a exact match does it matter NOPE does one person care nope. So the hunt part of this hobby is a joke. The hunt is a fraud. So when you get turned down like I have it’s a joke. What is it worth doing the hunt when there’s no reward for your hunt. It’s turned into money. So I’ll just buy coins already slabbed and forget the hunt part or I’ll spend my money on another dozer or another off shore boat like this one I have

[Crawtomatic]

"1964 SMS"...."Branch Proof Morgans"...."(a 3rd example would be nice)".....if you choose to hunt MobyDick-type coins that may or may not just be creative marketing and not actually different than high grade production items then there's going to be a lot of failure along the way with no guarantee of success.  There's a lot of other items to hunt that are less stressful & less infuriating.

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Crawtomatic

[Midwest Dozer]

I’ll stick to my off shore boats. At least you know weather you win or loose. Theirs no chasing your tail for no reasons. It’s just beyond reason why one counts and one don’t their both the exact same. All what the h. It’s not worth it. At least I know I own one and sometime later in life their will be new people at those places or some new grading company will open. Good thing about life is it always changes. They all have seen the twenty or thirty pictures of the specimen so. I’ll leave the coins alone for awhile again and do my boats. 

[Midwest Dozer]

550hp triple 502. 112mph  love the speed. We’re going to repaint it this winter. Let’s have fun.