We Are in Bizzarroworld 2 2

[Coinbuf]

On 7/16/2021 at 1:26 PM, Jason Abshier said:

I don’t know why a lot of these newer folks are trying to get into error coins (that’s a deep numismatic field that take some serious book or online studying outside of general numismatic collecting)

People do not want to go back to work so they have turned to the get rich quick youtube hucksters for those sure fire ways to get rich from the junk in your pocket.   Its not that these folks are interested in collecting or the hobby, just how rich can I get and how fast because they are lazy.

Getting to the op's question there is very little that any of us can do individually, but as a group we need to give accurate information and refrain from indulging those that are not interested in learning.  It is not hard to figure out which posters those are as they usually out themselves within a few reply posts.   The intellectual level in the US is dropping and will continue to do so until the education system stops teaching opinions.  As the intellect drops the misinformation and "garbage" on the net will only increase.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Coinbuf

[GBrad]

I would like to personally thank VKurtB for starting this thread which was a very good topic to discuss that he brought up, thanks!  It has now turned into, and allowed, such a good enjoyable time along with fun and humorous discussions amongst some knowledgable collectors (Not so much myself but I am still learning though).  I agree with all that has been said here and especially JKK's last comment about turning around total B...S. posts where a noob wants to argue about, and try to convince lifetime and experienced experts, that what they have is a bonafide true Mint error......... Let us "band together my brothers and sisters" and [attempt] to stop this nonsense!  But.... on the flip side.... there are a lot of uneducated new collectors who have valid questions.  They gladly thank us for our responses and go on their way with much needed education from the forum members and will hopefully continue learning in order to become more advanced and knowledgable.  We obviously need to be nice, welcoming and informative to our new ones until it's time not to be (I used to be one myself but through the guidance of the pros here, and my own diligent research, I have become much more educated, thank you) but there comes a time when we need to do something as simple as turning around their argument with topics like Disney World, the Egyptian pyramids or even when will Tiger Woods return to the PGA Tour...... Just my thoughts.

[JKK]

On 7/16/2021 at 2:08 PM, Coinbuf said:

People do not want to go back to work so they have turned to the get rich quick youtube hucksters for those sure fire ways to get rich from the in your pocket.   Its not that these folks are interested in collecting or the hobby, just how rich can I get and how fast because they are lazy.

Except: It was this way before the pandemic. Well before it.

[Woods020]

On 7/16/2021 at 11:00 AM, JKK said:

One way would be to stop responding to argumentative ignoramuses once they have been told that their parking lot coin or their Jesus-shaped mint mark is PMD, gotten mad, been ridiculed, and then decided that they'll now have the only fun they are going to have here by trolling. We end up with very long threads whose very size might tend to confer at least some potential cred upon bull*spoon* in the eyes of the observing novice.

If someone would tell them, once, credibly, that it's nothing special, and no one kept dignifying the subsequent lack_of_teachability with continuing to engage, maybe they wouldn't keep trolling and drawing in the resident troll enablers who make sure to charge up the paddles to shock to life any such thread when it looks like it might finally stop wasting time. As it is, we serve them up weeks of juvenile fun spiking all the grumpy old fogies' BP while they keep posting pics that even they know are not worth the bits used to make the images. It's the social equivalent of a bratty kid who can't have his elders' approval, so he goes for their annoyance.

This is one I recently had a discussion with myself about. You have to simply be ok saying what needs saying and move on. Even if that means letting them seemingly recuse their ignorance. Now if I will just listen to what I told me in that stern talking to all will be well 😂

[Alex in PA.]

Woods020 has words for all to listen to.  It just isn't easy.  I find it difficult when a so called 'Newbie' comes here and posts a comment with a picture of their 'obvious' parking lot find and in the first sentence tells us how baad NGC is and why don't we help new comers.  I counted over sixty 'Newbies' in the past month.  People who have posted once an don't come back.  I thought maybe Sleepy Hollow had just come alive and this Covid thing got people logging on.  I post ATS and didn't see this sort of influx until just lately.  Here's a comment from one of the folks ATS:

  "And now Rubicon posts as Detector Kay who posted as Patelnumis who posted as Rocky100 who posted as Robylu52……"  

[VKurtB]

On 7/16/2021 at 11:37 AM, Jason Abshier said:

Iron city beer used to be okay back Then up until the late 90’s rumors were floating around they were weren’t paying their water bill hanging on bankruptcies and they were tapped into the river next to the sewage plant using river water 🤣 always wonder why I got headaches after drinking I.C

now a days I’m Team RWB . @RWBdrink RWB juice while you read some RWB book on coins and minting *warning ! After drinking so many RWBs you’ll start to notice every coin you see is a double die ! That’s only a short term side effect of RWB juice*

RWB and Pottsville, PA are a match made in heaven. Only those who have been to Pottsville will understand the “shade throwing” that represents. 

[VKurtB]

On 7/16/2021 at 4:08 PM, Coinbuf said:

The intellectual level in the US is dropping and will continue to do so until the education system stops teaching opinions.

Bravi,  bravi, bravissimi. . 

Edited July 17, 2021 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 7/16/2021 at 11:46 AM, JKK said:

Don't forget masturbatory or dippy usernames like "coinz4u" or "KoinKapone" or "coinbadazz." Truth told, when I see one of those I already know what's coming.

This. If you don’t have legit experience in this field, you have no stinking business including the word *coin* in your handle. Those of you of a certain age or cable lineup will understand the following reference.  It’s like Granny on the Beverly Hillbillies using the word “doctor” for what she does. 

[JKK]

On 7/16/2021 at 5:27 PM, VKurtB said:

This. If you don’t have legit experience in this field, you have no stinking business including the word *coin* in your handle. Those of you of a certain age or cable lineup will understand the following reference.  It’s like Granny on the Beverly Hillbillies using the word “doctor” for what she does. 

Irene Ryan is the great forgotten genia of women's comedy. That voice sounded like someone tearing up a bag of old bedsheets. I still howl with laughter when she cuts loose in protest, or talks about her rheumatiz medicine.

[Henri Charriere]

On 7/16/2021 at 12:46 PM, JKK said:

Don't forget....usernames like "coinz4u" or "KoinKapone" or "coinbadazz." Truth told, when I see one of those I already know what's coming.

On the other hand, @cladking called clad coins a technological marvel and I went from regarding them as repugnant genetic mutations to being an acceptable form of modern coinage. Bizzaroworld, sho nuff.

[VKurtB]

On 7/16/2021 at 8:02 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

On the other hand, @cladking called clad coins a technological marvel and I went from regarding them as repugnant genetic mutations to being an acceptable form of modern coinage. Bizzaroworld, sho nuff.

I still don’t fully understand why we went to a clad coin, and virtually no other major nation did. Most went to a plating solution when silver became not viable.

[bsshog40]

We have a lot of young people today that do not even know all of the coinage that is still running around in circulation. Let alone people that would rather watch cat videos on youtube than inform themselves about the minting process of these coins. PMD to a coin can happen in millions of different ways and without the understanding of how a coin is minted, they will never understand the difference between a true error or damage. How many topics have been discussed about mechanical doubling or die deterioration and so on? And the ways to identify them? When they don't understand, they just debate people. It wouldn't surprise me that most people who are wishing for a million dollar coin have no interest in coins at all. Just wanting someone to verify that they have a coin that will keep them from ever having to work again. They just don't understand that a coin worth that much is not running around in circulation. 

[James Zyskowski]

What if we post the ten most asked questions. Then list some  possible answers for each. Update it as needed. Kinda prescreening  The poster then eliminates answers and hopefully is directed to a relevant question. Post a quick list of most requested information photos weight size. With a little work it might be done. Seems like intelligent folks around here should be able to figure this out. Just a thought?

[GBrad]

On 7/16/2021 at 4:56 PM, James Zyskowski said:

This forum sez newbie. That in and of itself opens the door to anyone

This is a topic of discussion I have had with several members in the past via messaging. The consensus amongst those discussions was that the term "Newbie" could possibly be re-named to something more (or less) inviting to "new comers" and collectors (hey, there's a decent label...."New Comer").  Maybe a mod will see this and take it to heart.  I myself never really liked the label "Newbie", made me feel like a insufficiently_thoughtful_person to even ask a question amongst the pros but I did because I am thick skinned.  New coin collectors do not need to be labeled as any type of distinguished, veteran, or experienced collector, etc...... until they have proven themselves in their knowledge of numismatics.  

[GBrad]

On 7/16/2021 at 11:19 PM, GBrad said:

insufficiently_thoughtful_person

wow..... I didn't even use the word "I..D..I..O..T"  and it still auto corrected. 

Edited July 17, 2021 by GBrad

[VKurtB]

On 7/16/2021 at 10:19 PM, GBrad said:

but I did because I am thick skinned.

We need much more of that in the younger generation. So emotionally fragile!

[GBrad]

On 7/16/2021 at 11:21 PM, VKurtB said:

We need much more of that in the younger generation. So emotionally fragile!

It's a total tragedy what this new generation has brought (or should I say HAS NOT brought) to the table. It saddens me to think what this world will be like in another 10 years and not to mention numismatics.......  Very sad.  

Edited July 17, 2021 by GBrad

[Lem E]

It’s an instant gratification culture now. A lot of people don’t want to do even the simplest of research or learn anything. It’s just “what is this and what is it worth?” 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Lem E

[Oldhoopster]

Just a few random comments

* I think many find the term "newbie" pejorative and want to avoid being categorized as such.  I have another collecting interest and I definitely fall into the newbie category, but I hate that label.  It sounds like something you would call a child that has just joined a group, not an adult who is trying to learn a subject. I try to use the term "New Collector".  It's factual and doesn't have any condescending connotation as far as I can tell.

* Sometimes I think that the argumentative new members don't understand the amount of experience and knowledge that many members possess.  It seems like they think we're the equivalent of the guy at the end of the bar.  All is well if you you agree with the OP, but if you don't, the OP assumes you don't know any more than they do.  In the pre internet days, when you had to show your coin to someone in person, you could get a feeling for the persons knowledge and confidence by their mannerisms, responds, confidence, etc.  That gets lost on the net.

* Another thing that annoys me (although it doesn't seem to happen that often) is the new collector who makes multiple posts asking " is this an error - is it valuable - should I get it graded".  No problem with asking once, but multiple different coins, after they've been given links to resources or Redbook recommendations to do a little prescreening is just lazy.  To me, this is the equivalent of holding out a handful of pocket change and asking "Is anything valuable?  I don't want to waste my time doing any research. Just give me an answer"  

* I hate long, rambling posts that could make an equivalent point with only 20% of the words - Oh wait....

 

[James Zyskowski]

Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to almost every middle and high school teachers daily challenge. I wouldn’t want them to give up    Now we have a list of complaints is it not time to work on them      Or complain and never get anything done 

[VKurtB]

On 7/17/2021 at 7:47 AM, Oldhoopster said:

should I get it graded

Answering this one in the negative (the usually correct answer) does make me sad nonetheless, given who our hosts are.

On 7/17/2021 at 7:47 AM, Oldhoopster said:

To me, this is the equivalent of holding out a handful of pocket change and asking "Is anything valuable?  I don't want to waste my time doing any research. Just give me an answer"  

I believe this is because they have a fundamental lack of understanding of probability. They believe it’s a 50/50 shot, or close to it.

On 7/17/2021 at 7:47 AM, Oldhoopster said:

That gets lost on the net.

I guess THIS is the underlying point from me. LOTS gets lost on the net, some EXTREMELY important things around this field in particular get lost on the net. It’s a bad medium for this field. 
 

I understand that lots of people are okay with shipping stuff back and forth, and returning coins that didn’t meet their standards, and the concomitant delays. I am not. I’d rather stick needles in my eyes than deal with shipping.

Edited July 17, 2021 by VKurtB

[Jason Abshier]

On 7/17/2021 at 11:11 AM, VKurtB said:

I’d rather stick needles in my eyes

Ouch ! So dark and painful that statement 🤣

[James Zyskowski]

On 7/17/2021 at 9:30 AM, Jason Abshier said:

Ouch ! So dark and painful that statement 🤣

No no we need you to help inspect rabbit holes and such. Not the eyes 👀🙀😵‍💫

[VKurtB]

On 7/17/2021 at 11:45 AM, James Zyskowski said:

No no we need you to help inspect rabbit holes and such. Not the eyes 👀🙀😵‍💫

Not needles exactly, but I’ve had cataract surgery and I was still awake enough on the second one to be aware of them cutting my cornea open. YIKES!

[VKurtB]

Here’s a quote from an unrelated story about how conspiracies and misinformation are aided by the Internet:

”Michael Barkun, professor emeritus of political science at Syracuse University's Maxwell School, said internet forums and social media platforms have served as mass media outlets without gatekeepers. They allow unconventional ideas to quickly become mainstream.

“Now anyone with an idea, no matter how bizarre, has a way of potentially getting it in front of fairly large audiences,” he said. “That has eroded what was once a firm boundary between the fringe and the mainstream.”

[Henri Charriere]

On 7/17/2021 at 8:47 AM, Oldhoopster said:

Just a few random comments...

I hate long, rambling posts that could make an equivalent point with only 20% of the words ...

Iknowwhatchamean!  🐓

[Rummy13]

I have been following this for a while now and tried to bite my tongue. I for one research a lot and submit a little for your review. This week I went and watched a group of 9 year old kids play an all-star baseball game. When the game ended I was foolish enough to ask who won. A mother of one of the kids said to me "we don't keep score, we just want them to feel good about them self's." If there is no winner then they all are losers, If people are not taught that there is a difference in doing something right and just doing something this is what happens. When the get a job they think the should get paid just for being there. Then think they should get paid the same as a person that works hard and get promoted. My coin with a PMD flatted S, should be worth as much as that coin. If there was a company that gave some selling an approval certificate, and could with draw it if they did not meet a standard, it would help all the new coin collectors. Then people could chose to buy from a certified dealer or just get what ever someone want from someone out to make money. 

[VKurtB]

On 7/17/2021 at 12:50 PM, Rummy13 said:

I have been following this for a while now and tried to bite my tongue. I for one research a lot and submit a little for your review. This week I went and watched a group of 9 year old kids play an all-star baseball game. When the game ended I was foolish enough to ask who won. A mother of one of the kids said to me "we don't keep score, we just want them to feel good about them self's." If there is no winner then they all are losers, If people are not taught that there is a difference in doing something right and just doing something this is what happens. When the get a job they think the should get paid just for being there. Then think they should get paid the same as a person that works hard and get promoted. My coin with a PMD flatted S, should be worth as much as that coin. If there was a company that gave some selling an approval certificate, and could with draw it if they did not meet a standard, it would help all the new coin collectors. Then people could chose to buy from a certified dealer or just get what ever someone want from someone out to make money. 

The other one that gets my blood boiling is, “my opinion is as good as yours, because they’re both opinions”. Noooo, that’s not how the real world works, “flowsnakes”. Ask any trial judge. The only people allowed to give opinions are certified experts. 

[James Zyskowski]

I’m really confused with your response. It’s like you’re describing events that occur daily kids baseball parental views. Then a description of the normal business of buying and selling coins.  Ofcourse the buyer has options. I think you are referring to TPG and coin value mags perhaps eBay sold prices as something rare or unavailable. 

[Jason Abshier]

On 7/17/2021 at 1:37 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Iknowwhatchamean!  🐓

@Quintus Arrius be careful with that rooster … we gotta start nicknaming you “Rooster” there’s even an Alice in chain song “Rooster” fits you perfectly for your love of roosters ! 👍