FOOLproof Way To Get Coins Cheaper At Auction 1 1

[gmarguli]

Normally at auction people bid until the one willing to pay the most has outbid all other bidders. However, one of my eBay buyers found a FOOLproof way to pay less.

He placed his first bid at $86 and then two other bidders came in and bid higher amounts. He came back with several more bids and was high bidder three separate times before the auction ended. At this point he decided the underbidders had bid too much, so he sent me this email: Could you please cancel the other bidder's bids? They bid this up way too high. Thanks. Yes, he wants me to cancel the underbidders bids because they bid too much. 

The item sold for $410 with him as the high bidder. 

When he saw that I didn't cancel the underbidders bids, he tried another approach: My bid of $86 seems like an appropriate price to pay for this item. Could you please send me an adjusted invoice? I think the other bidder got carried away. Thank you.

When no new invoice came his way, he tried to reason with me: All the other Israeli commemoratives you have sold of similar types have sold between approximately $68 to $125. Perhaps they did it to be antisemitic. This auction turned into an overpriced disaster. This completely ignores the fact that the other commems were common coins and this was a very low mintage, top pop example.

At this point I canceled the order as I prefer not to deal with crazy. He then let me know that he did not want to cancel the order and he was ready to pay $86. When that didn't work, he let me know some awful news: Historically, this is a bad week for the Jewish people. I had a feeling something wasn't going to go right for me.

FYI, I received a total of 8 emails from him over a couple hour period and did not reply to a single one of them. Anyway, I'm off to chastise the underbidder (forum member ATS) for bidding this coin up just due to anti-Semitism. I bet he's going to be very confused about being an anti-Semite considering he's Jewish. That's just something he'll have to deal with...

[Revenant]

You know this is something I always worry about with bidding. There are times in my life where I've been tempted to bid something silly on a coin - something far higher than I think it should go for - just to make sure I win. The problem is - and the reason I've never actually done this - is that if someone wanted it more than me or someone else decided to try this "bright" idea it could turn into a disaster.

Yeah. I've had some irritating days when I lost something to a sniper bidder by 46 cents and seen the note pop up in my competition's set 2 weeks later, but I prefer that to overpaying and buyers remorse.

Sounds like some insufficiently_thoughtful_person bid the rent money on a coin and was having a panic attack.

[RWB]

Blow a shofar in his ear !

[MarkFeld]

That’s pretty funny. Did you block him?

[Woods020]

This is ingenious. Why didn’t I think about that before. Win the bid then negotiate it was too high. 
 

@MarkFelddo you think Heritage would let me go back and retroactively say some of the coins I have won in recent auctions were simply too high because others bid too much?? 😂

I give this guy credit he has some stones. I would have thought it was a joke. 

[Hoghead515]

Sounds like a great idea. I won an auction at GC I haven't paid yet. Might try to negotiate a better price. I had it won from the beginning. If that last bidder wouldn't have bidded such a high price in the last 3 seconds I'd been good. Lol  There sure are some crazy people out there in this old world. 

[Henri Charriere]

My strategy is to first move a ridiculously low minimum up to melt -- and bide my time.  My greatest successes when I bought raw was to find auctions that ended at odd early morning hours when few bidders would be up and around, wait until the sand was about to run out of the clock and spring into action.

The worst crimes I ever  committed was contacting the seller directly (due to impatience) and making him (usually a novice) an offer he couldn't refuse:  "if you can see your way clear to release the item for X, I will buy it immediately."  This approach backfired with Liberty Coins in CA. which wrote me a sickeningly sweet but professional text stating "we belive the sale price reflects its Fair Market Value."  (I don't like odd numbers but it was an integral part of their religion so I relented.)

[Conder101]

3 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

My greatest successes when I bought raw was to find auctions that ended at odd early morning hours when few bidders would be up and around, wait until the sand was about to run out of the clock and spring into action.

That works, of course I don't want to have to sit around to those odd early hours just so I can "spring into action".  So I set a snipe bid in a sniping program and let it spring into action for me while I sleep or go do something else.  (Of course this only works on ebay auctions)

[Hoghead515]

3 hours ago, Conder101 said:

That works, of course I don't want to have to sit around to those odd early hours just so I can "spring into action".  So I set a snipe bid in a sniping program and let it spring into action for me while I sleep or go do something else.  (Of course this only works on ebay auctions)

I've done this as well and won a few  coins I really wanted badly. I lost a couple of them. But I've won more than I've lost. 

[Revenant]

3 hours ago, Conder101 said:

That works, of course I don't want to have to sit around to those odd early hours just so I can "spring into action".  So I set a snipe bid in a sniping program and let it spring into action for me while I sleep or go do something else.  (Of course this only works on ebay auctions)

I just pop in my bid before going to bed and see the results in the morning. No sniping program. I find I still often win. 

[World Colonial]

I don't sell much on eBay but have had a few bidders attempt to negotiate terms, though not the price, after the auction ended.

The first buyer was in South Africa where they charge 14% VAT.  He asked me to falsify the customs form so that he did not have to pay it.  Of course, if the coin had been lost or stolen, it would have been at my risk, since presumably I would not be able to collect on the insurance.

The second buyer was in Spain who wanted free registered mail shipping.  I was already eating some of the cost.

Needless to say, I declined to do either.

[Just Bob]

When I saw the title of the thread, and the name of the author, I had a feeling it would be entertaining. I wasn't disappointed.

You gotta love crazy.

[Woods020]

“Now that we have all of those other pesky bidders out of the way, let’s talk price”

[VKurtB]

None of these unethical behaviors would EVER have occurred to this native Pennsylvanian. Auction ethics is a key part of my state's culture. We are DEADLY SERIOUS about ethical auction behavior. People go to prison for breaking our highly detailed auction laws. Tens of thousands of private homes are sold via public auction (with no realtor involvement whatsoever) in the Keystone State every year. It's why major coin auction firms are not in Pennsylvania and even Legend's Laura Sperber disbanded her partnership with a PA firm. Bidding up your own stuff, aka shill bidding (as S-B and Heritage often do) is a criminal act in Pennsylvania. Maybe that's why most of my ANA show auction winning bids were in Philly in 2012 and 2018. Pittsburgh 2023, here I come!

But then, here I am in Alabama, and I can't even find ONE decent auction of coins.

Edited July 13, 2021 by VKurtB

[Woods020]

6 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

None of these unethical behaviors would EVER have occurred to this native Pennsylvanian. Auction ethics is a key part of my state's culture. We are DEADLY SERIOUS about ethical auction behavior. People go to prison for breaking our highly detailed auction laws. Tens of thousands of private homes are sold via public auction (with no realtor involvement whatsoever) in the Keystone State every year. It's why major coin auction firms are not in Pennsylvania and even Legend's Laura Sperber disbanded her partnership with a PA firm. Bidding up your own stuff, aka shill bidding (as S-B and Heritage often do) is a criminal act in Pennsylvania. Maybe that's why most of my ANA show auction winning bids were in Philly in 2012 and 2018. Pittsburgh 2023, here I come!

But then, here I am in Alabama, and I can't even find ONE decent auction of coins.

If you find one anywhere around here let me know. I was never into numismatics when I lived here, and now that I am back I quickly realized there isn’t much going on in this area of the country. 

[J P M]

I myself have not bid on any coins yet I have looked at GC and Heritage I was wondering ? I have seen extra charges? Is there a percentage you have to pay after winning a bid added on to the price you won it for? Thought I would ask seeing there sounds like many here that have used the auction system.   

[Henri Charriere]

15 hours ago, Conder101 said:

That works, of course I don't want to have to sit around to those odd early hours just so I can "spring into action".  So I set a snipe bid in a sniping program and let it spring into action for me while I sleep or go do something else.  (Of course this only works on ebay auctions)

Mighty Conder, you never cease to amaze me!

[Woods020]

2 hours ago, J P Mashoke said:

I myself have not bid on any coins yet I have looked at GC and Heritage I was wondering ? I have seen extra charges? Is there a percentage you have to pay after winning a bid added on to the price you won it for? Thought I would ask seeing there sounds like many here that have used the auction system.   

JP,

Most of the auctions have a buyers premium. It will differ from auction houses to auction house or even from one auction to another. Usually in the 10%-15% range. Read the fine print to find out for a specific item. 
 

Also I know you had asked recently about pricing. If you look up sold prices most of the time it will be the realized price including buyers premium. However it may not from time to time so when looking at prices realized see if it included it or not. 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Woods020

[Jeremy468]

17 hours ago, Conder101 said:

So I set a snipe bid in a sniping program

As a fellow Hoosier, tell me more... how do we do that

 

[thebeav]

As a seller, I just hate it when one of my auctions turns into an 'overpriced disaster'.......

[VKurtB]

4 hours ago, Jeremy468 said:

As a fellow Hoosier, tell me more... how do we do that

 

Just do an app search for “eBay sniper”. There was a GREAT one for the BlackBerry OS years ago. I haven’t found one as slick for iOS lately.

[thebeav]

I've used esnipe for many, many years.....

[Jason Abshier]

I always bid max amount I wish to pay for a coin I do not come back to see if I won and do not or engage in battle of bidding … There’s also a lot shady shill bidding going on eBay sometimes  if notice prices start climbing high really fast way over price of what something normally sells or worth chances are a eBay sellers has his family member or another made up “fake buyer” account bidding on their own stuff to Jack up the prices (but it’s hard to prove sometimes).  Most of the time I’ll attend offers give my best offer a lot sellers are open to offers I been doing business good that way works for me I haven’t been bidding much at all on places like EBay and so on . However I have been doing a little live auctions bidding on the European market for world coins 

[VKurtB]

On 7/14/2021 at 4:55 PM, Jason Abshier said:

There’s also a lot shady shill bidding going on eBay sometimes

At Heritage and Stack’s - Bowers, too. Probably Legend as well. If an auction is NOT run under Pennsylvania law, I just assume shill bidding is all over it. In Pennsylvania, the Department of State sends out undercover “auction cops” to police its auction laws. Licenses get pulled on the spot for shill bidding.

Edited July 15, 2021 by VKurtB

[Jason Abshier]

On 7/15/2021 at 10:19 AM, VKurtB said:

At Heritage and Stack’s - Bowers, too. Probably Legend as well. If an auction is NOT run under Pennsylvania law, I just assume shill bidding is all over it. In Pennsylvania, the Department of State sends out undercover “auction cops” to police its auction laws. Licenses get pulled on the spot for shill bidding.

That is true even bidding going on over in European market is probably rigged as well . I’ve only bid in 4 coins from heritage only won 1 of them , I was warned by a few about heritage bidding on their own stuff to run the prices up … thanks for mentioning that good information helps out new people on here . As well as even me I’d be lying if I said I haven’t engaged into a bidding wars and get carried away and actually won having to pay a high price and fees I have and I learned the hard way . But lately I only bid what I’m willing to pay and not get carried away sometimes bidding can become a serious addiction just as bad as gambling I wouldn’t rely on it all time or have high hopes of winning all the time … 

[numisport]

On 7/13/2021 at 8:37 PM, Jeremy468 said:

As a fellow Hoosier, tell me more... how do we do that

 

Snipes do exist but I have never spotted one in Indiana yet 

[Conder101]

On 7/13/2021 at 8:37 PM, Jeremy468 said:

As a fellow Hoosier, tell me more... how do we do that

As Kurt said, just do a google search for Snipe programs, you will find a lot of them.  I use Auction Sniper..  The one downside is you do have to give them your Ebay ID and password.  But many of these programs have been around for 20 years and I've never heard complaints about them.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Conder101

[Crawtomatic]

On 7/14/2021 at 4:55 PM, Jason Abshier said:

I always bid max amount I wish to pay for a coin I do not come back to see if I won and do not or engage in battle of bidding 

Same.  I've sold on eBay (various items, not just coins) since 2001.  And one thing that hasn't changed, which I'm sure applies in real world auctioning, is that bidders make it emotional even when the item at stake is not worthy.  And by worthy I mean one of those items that only comes to market periodically and has no equal.

Shoot, I can't even tell you how many times I've had an item listed as Fixed Price for 2 months then sent it to auction and it sold for well above the Fixed Price listing because 2 guys got into a battle at the end.  

[Henri Charriere]

[All I know is Wesley Snipes served his three years for tax evasion in McKean, PA.]   

[VKurtB]

On 7/15/2021 at 12:56 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

[All I know is Wesley Snipes served his three years for tax evasion in McKean, PA.]   

I think I saw him there during a prison tour. /kidding